Darko vs. J-Max

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 16 Mile, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    roscoe36: new discussion created from posts in the Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread.
    I guess Jmax wont be exciting you too much then, he could be a low post monster with the Pistons, but he's too short, too slow, to be any kind of defensive presence, or glass cleaner (check his stats, his rebounding is attrocious, even for gt) Darko, who was always criticized for being soft, playing no D, and being a poor rebounder, got twice as many blocks and rebounds in similar PT.
     
  2. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    jmax gets up and down the floor twice as fast as darko, has much better hands for rebounds, can block shots just as well (and better relative to his size), and actually has the heart to chase rebounds, get in the paint, and go after the glass. he's like darko except that he doesn't suck.
     
  3. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    Saying JMax is a good rebounder, does not make him a good rebounder. Darko has played 139 min, JMax, 69, 2 to 1, yet the stats are more than 2 to 1 in Darko's favor, and if Darko sucks, that's not saying too much about JMax

    DReb Darko 18 JMax 4
    OReb Darko 10 JMax 6
    Blocks Darko 15 JMax 3
    Steals Darko 3 JMax 1


    As good as JMax has been on O, he's been that bad on D, and he has not shown any ability to rebound. Reviews of his summer league play said the same things, people were worried about his rebounding. Considering he was not a good rebounder in college, not in the summer league, and has not rebounded with Detroit, I'm at a loss why people think he can rebound.

    And if he can't rebound, or play D, I can't see how he can be a PF for Detroit, no matter how good his inside scoring is.

    I feel like Rob Reiner in Spinal Tap trying to explain that having your amp go to 11 doesnt actually make it louder. Having good hands, long arms, and hustle doesnt make you a good rebounder or shot blocker if you dont actually get rebounds or blocks.
     
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    I see the same thing when I look at the numbers. So far JMax has been a below average rebounder, especially on the defensive end. On a per minute basis he is about as productive as MoE. (And on a per minute basis fairly comparable to TP who has all but given up rebounding this year.)

    But, I'm hoping that his offensive aggressiveness will eventually spread to other parts of his game. Must admit though that my original hope that JMax would be the second coming of Charlie Barkley is floundering on the rocks.
     
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    stop comparing meaningless garbage time stats. btw i recall darko sucking in the summer league and jmax getting rave reviews...with 2 less years professional experience. come to think of it, the fact that darko couldn't dominate a summer league full of lesser talent says a lot about how terrible he is at basketball. oh wait...he was just trying to get his teammates involved in the game, right?

    "He is a very strong rebounder...like Ben."
    "He runs the floor pretty well, he won't get caught lagging behind the pack"
    "this guy is really hitting the boards well"

    apparently there's more than just one of us spinal-tapping it who are completely clueless.
     
  6. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    Darko's lack of effort or aggression has nothing to do with JMax, except that Darko playing without effor or aggresion he still out boards, has more blocks, and makes more steals than a man who is putting everything he has on the floor. That's not good, unless what JMax is doing in GT is sacrificing D to score as much as possible to show what he's best at.

    I dont have a problem with that, as a situational sub, JMax could dominate on O whenever other teams sub undersized PFs. I'm not saying JMax sucks or Darko is better than him, I'm just pointing out what his pros and cons are regarding playing ability from what little I've seen of him, regardless of personall feelings.

    All the effort in the world aint gonna make Hunter's jumper go in.
     
  7. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    so you're admitting darko doesn't put effort on the floor. :) i agree!

    that's exactly what you were saying earlier, even it wasn't totally explicit. i was explicit though in saying darko sucks. :) i think darko has loads of talent, enough to be a very good player in the league. but talent can't make up for a lack of effort, lack of heart, and low basketball IQ. like big ben and chauncey said, he didn't have that killer instinct, and for that he'll never be more than a radmonovic or olowokandi.
     
  8. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: Micro's Jason Maxiell Thread

    darko stopped putting effort out when he realized that no matter what he did he would not crack the lineup. let's see how much effort jmax is putting in after 3 years of "earning" some minutes.

    well i will say it. darko is better than jmax. you can't teach height. jmax is totally lacking in this area for the type of game he plays. but you're wrong about talent not making up for lack of effort, heart or basketball iq. look at vince carter, mcgrady etc. the list goes on. darko can't be judged by his effort level in the detroit org. he simply was not motivated and he forced joe d's hand because joe didn't want to tell his coaches to keep his #2 pick happy. he will be a beast down there in orlando with d.howard. although i doubt ben said that but he will get dogged out by darko in a year or two. just like all the other young big men are doing to him nowadays.

    it says something about jmax, dale davis etc. darko outplays all of them while giving the minimum of effort. just think if the pistons had been interested in motivating and developing the young big man instead of teaching him a lesson.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's kinda ridiculous that my "this is J-Max" thread spawns the DMC comparisons, but hey, it's a free world, so lets have at it.

    You can't teach heart. J-Max may not ever even make it further than 6th man, never get a chance to start, but he'll have a place with the Pistons for awhile because he works hard, he values his shot in the pros, and he's mature enough to handle his business off the court like an adult.

    Darko's got 2 pro years under his belt. Yeah, sure he never played, but he's still got two more years developing NBA game with the finest coaches, trainers, players in the finest facility for one of the finest teams in the league.

    I watched J-Max play in SL (on TV) and I caught some of his college film too. With time, he's going to be a successful NBA player, rebounds or no rebounds because he's ferocious. Because he's powerful. Because he has range. Because he bumps his man after he finishes posterizing him.

    You can't teach attitude. The Pistons tried. Whatever Darko will be, he never had the same heart and passion, the same drive and mental toughness as the guys he was playing with. It's a team of castoffs and guys who were drafted late or not at all. Guys with attitude problems, perceived as less than someone else, or not meeting expectations. We all know what they did. We all know what they are doing now.

    Joe isn't drafting pure talent anymore. He found a way to find someone else's rejects and undervalued talent, and build an atmosphere and clubhouse that puts the emphasis on winning above all else. Darko never accepted a role because the role didn't suit him. By all accounts, J-Max does not appear to be the type of player to balk at garbage time, or complain that he hasn't hit the court in 5 games.

    So if you want to truly compare these guys, forget physical stats. Forget gametime stats. Because the Pistons are not built like that. They got a rail thin shooting guard (whose knock was no range), a small forward that was overlooked in the draft and could blow away in a stiff breeze. They've got a MAN playing center that is barely an NBA power forward if you go by height alone. And yet they're champions.

    And for anyone with a Hoopsworld subscription, there is a great article on how the concept of a "franchise center" is outdated and without merit. Teams can compete and win at the highest level without the greatest amount of size. The Bad Boys did it, the Bulls did it, and this edition of the Pistons does it.

    Darko might dog Ben one day, but at the end of the night, he'll have a statline with a L attached to it. With the starters soon to be locked up, and young guns like The Brahma, Acker, Johnson, and Delfino coming up behind them, this franchise will not take a tumble anytime soon.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Flip Saunder quote from his weekly radio interview on Stoney and Wojo (WDFN 1130 AM)

    And that is why J-Max will have some kind of decent NBA career. Because he won't be the last guy in line. He won't allow that to happen.
     
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Flip couldn't hide the disappointment in his voice. That said more than anything.
    Joe is laughing at Orlando and all it cost him was Carlos Arroyo...who wanted to play there anyway.
     
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    all it may cost him is a championship. did you see lindsey running the offense last night??

    flip shouldn't be upset he's a part of the problem. he drove another young player out of town. now he can try to win the championship with those dinosaurs on the bench. soon he'll have dinosaurs on the starting frontline. i think orlando will be laughing when in 2 years d.howard and darko are running and gunning while our dinosaur frontline tries to keep up.
     
  13. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    I'm done trying to defend Darko, everyone knows where I stand, I'm tired of arguing. You guys can write all the Darko sucks stuff you want, I don't care.

    On the other hand what is relevant is Detroit's management of Darko, and if they treat the youngsters the same way, will they end up the same as Darko?

    JMax may be all fine and dandy now, but what happens 2 years down the road after no PT? How will his attitude be? Acker? Johnson? Will Delfino want to resign with Detroit after the way he was treated last year? What if he has to share minutes with Evans next year, think he'll want to resign? Doubt it.

    I understand the "gotta earn it" mantra, but if guys think they've earned it, and still dont get the PT, they're not going to be too happy here. And my real fear is that our young guys will not want to stay, and we're becoming the farm team for the rest of the nba.

    And hunter sucks
     
  14. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I am down with this. Delfino is one guy that showed he deserved to get on the court but sees limited burn time. Guys can't even get in the game when we have a sizeable lead.

    The biggest problem to me is that this team coasts to victory 70% of the time. They get by with playing 3 quarters of basketball. Tell me there isn't a wider magin to fit some new guys in there.
     
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    We must be the worst team in basketball if losing Arroyo and Darko will cost us the title. WOW.:crazy:
     
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    So if he sucks in Orlando, will it be because Magic Mgmnt are idiots?
     
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    nope. not the worst just the oldest. most of our veteran bench contributors have seen thier best days years and years ago. good for 30 second stretches to rest the starters. you ever wonder why the starters lose leads in the 4th quarter of blowouts?? being too tired can cost us in the playoffs we should have learned that from last year.
     
  18. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    darko wasn't a PISTON in DNA. J-MAX is everything the Pistons are about. The guy gives a serious effort out there everytime I've seen him play. He's a beast on O. Darko can't rebound either. This conversation is boring. Joe D made a sweet move, and the DHOFC is going crazy. GO PISTONS!!
     
  19. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    the pistons don't lose leads in the 4th quarter because they're tired, they do it because they already won and can coast the rest of the way.

    btw delfino and evans are both young, mcdyess isn't old, and davis/hunter have no problem playing hard in their limited minutes.
     
  20. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Why is it that the J-Max haters all happen to be members of the DHOF club? Coincidence?

    Are they advocating trading J-Max to Orlando for Darko? :crazy:
     

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