Darko

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Jackattaq, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Really? I've never seen it described that way.

    NBA.com's McAdoo bio says "the Celtics dispatched McAdoo [after the '78-'79 season] to the Detroit Pistons as compensation for Boston's free-agent signing of M. L. Carr."

    EDIT: And here's what NBA.com says about the Parish/McHale trade:

     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    About halfway down, HOOPSANALYST (look for Detroit Pistons)

    That is also how Eli Zaret recalls it in Blue Collar Blueprint.

    The trade may have been prompted as compensation for losing Carr in free agency. But Carr was a free agent and going to the Celtics no matter what the Pistons did.
     
  3. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    according to your last post, Roscoe, that trade doesn't seem that bad to me now- no one could know that Mc Adoo would become injured and know one could know that the Celts get two future hall of famers via excellent deals. (Correct me if my conclusions are wrong, you're definetely far more of an expert in causes of trades, especially trades that happened in the 80s). Saying that this was a bad trade seems to me like saying trading player X for player Y to Team Z is a bad trade because Team Z trades player Y for player W who becomes a superstar- you can't talk about bad trades if another team makes great deals no one expected with them, imho.
    With the Pistons trade, Joe knew about Darko's potential. And he also knew that Arroyo was a solid NBA player- so I still wonder (if he really needed to do that trade) why it wasn't possible to
    - wait til summer
    - AND/OR get someone better in reward than an expiring contract of an permantely injured player and a (protected) pick?
     
  4. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    :pound: Imagine my surprise just now to see a brand spankin' new thread titled Darko in my list of unread posts (NICE title Roscoe...classic :nod: ). Ah...further investigation :spy: revealed that it to be a Sheed thread that Roscoe had to rescue. Thanks Roscoe.:) I really like the Sheed thread and would not have liked seeing it go down in the flames of the Darko drama.:flame: :drama:
    Now don't anyone get me wrong. I LOVE:inlove: Darko. But what a thread hijacker the Serbian Gangster has turned out to be. :laugh:
     
  5. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Interesting, I never knew that. McAdoo for M.L. Carr wouldn't have been so bad, but with the 1st and 13th picks in the draft thrown in as well? :doh:

    Although I do like that the Pistons got Laimbeer and the pick that turned out to be Rodman in exchange for Phil Hubbard and Paul Mokeski! :cheerlie-GOAL:
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    By the same token, I don't think anyone thought that Cato AND Davis would sit against Shaq, or that the money saved with Cato's expiring deal would not be used (completely) to retain Ben.

    Also, no one knows that Darko will be an All-Star at this time, or that he will be a 7 time All-Star or 3 time Champion, yet if you read some of the WORST TRADE EVER responses, you would think he was guaranteed a Michael Jordan type career.

    At this time, he is a very promising big man, and Arroyo is the best backup PG in the NBA. Not exactly the worst deal ever considering that #1 pick from Orlando could turn out to be a player better than both of them (Darko+Arroyo, hey, I'm allowed to dream too) combined.

    By summer, Darko's value would have been less. He was getting less and less playing time. The timing of the deal wasn't great, but it could have been worse.

    That protected pick is in a draft that should be as deep if not deeper (admittedly not as top heavy) than 2003. A mid first round pick could quite possibly be a franchise stud. Yes the Pistons squandered the cap space, but that pick still holds a lot of potential, at a time when Sheed and Dice will be winding down their careers...
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The best part of that was McCloskey selling Ted Stepien (the Cavs owner) on Mokeski (who was a total stiff) because they were both Polish.
     
  8. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    By summer, Joe D. probably wouldn't feel like trading Darko after Ben's departure... I don't think Darko's trade value could become even less than mid- season; also, he had the chance to raise it during the FIBA games, I think the affect of these games on the reputation isn't that little.
    You're right, no one knew what would happen- that's why you can say that this is very bad deal if you look at the current situation; if Joe D. had used the money to keep Ben (AND Ben played 2-3 more good seasons in Detroit) and get someone like Wells, the criticism about the deal would be much less. This way, you can already speak of a very bad trade since it seems sure that Darko's going to be at least a solid bigman- and you know how rare good guys with size are.
    But that doesn't mean that there still is a small chance that the trade turns out to be not that bad (for instance, if Joe manages to get a good player).
     
  9. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Rasheed Wallace : The key

    That's the main point of my argument through the last couple of years. In my opinion, you HAVE to allow your #2 overall pick to have some minutes, play his way through his mistakes, and become the player you envisioned when you drafted him #2 Overall.

    What you do not do is go out and hire a coach who does not play young people (especially Euros, if your draftee is a Euro) and let him make a farce of the entire transaction. You don't hire a coach who will disrespect and tear down the confidence of your major investment just because you don't need him right now. You might need him later, so you invest some time and effort in him

    If you are a good GM and the boss of the coaches you hire, you make sure your #2 Overall pick either makes it or doesn't make it on his own merit, or becomes someone you can trade to get a great player who will help the team. If the coaches you hire stand in his way, you move them out of his way. That's what bosses do. Make their management types work for the good of the organization.
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Darko has a long career ahead of him and a lot of things can change. Billups was picked #3 and it took until age 25 when he came here that he started playing like one.

    That draft will always depress me though. Even Mello is comming around. Anyone thinking now that Prince is better than Carmello needs to take off those Piston glasses.
     
  11. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I completely DISAGREE. No one knows what Tay will become. Tay is getting better EVERY YEAR. Melo still seems like a cocky basketball player who hasn't learned his lesson by spouting off during the olympics. Melo shows ZERO humility. The guy has proven to be a bit of an off court distraction. (2 Weed instances in the first 3 years?)

    Tay plays his role and plays it well, I would bet that Tay could average 20 a night if the Pistons made that his primary role. I think his role will INCREASE this year and YES I do feel that I would MUCH RATHER have Tayshaun than the shot-chucker Melo.
     
  12. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I take Tay over Melo any day and twice in the finals!

    IMO, Melo has more offensive game, but Tay is a better all around and team player.

    Its not always about having the most talented players (look at Team USA's recent results) its about having the best team players with talent.
     
  13. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Tayshaun will probably never be the scorer that Melo is, but I would raather have Taysh. I don't see Melo as much but I have never seen him play defense like T, and I doubt you will ever see him make the spectacular blocks.

    I agree that T could score more than he does if he was an earler option for the Pistons. His defense is usually quite good and he often draws the main scoring option for the other team, it seems to me.

    I would still rather have Tayshaun.
     
  14. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I just realized how bad things are. Now we have stolen

    Darko's thread :pirates: !!!
     
  15. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :pound:

    Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse? :reading: I know I read it somewhere. :confused:

    [SIGN]THE END IS NEAR![/SIGN]
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    Carmello has really improved his game. 26.5 PPG last season shooting around .48%. He is not the same player he was when everyone was preferring Prince over him.

    I like Tay but there is no way he could average 20+.
     
  17. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    ``Anyone still sticking up for LB is in some serious denial about him the last few years.''

    I couldn't agree less. This playoffs showed us that coaching matters. LB coaxed the same malcontents to the finals and almost a second title, and that's even when he was letting Popovich outcoach him to an embarassing extent. There were times in that Miami series where they played hard for half a quarter a most. Half of LB is better than most coaches. He may have gone permanently crazy now, but it's criminal what a lack of respect he gets for what he did here.

    Now, if you wanna criticize him for how he handled Darko, maybe that's an argument. But it's an argument made worse by the fact that Flip couldn't get him going either, and he's had effort issues in Orlando too. Everybody wants to talk about how we failed Darko by making him earn his minutes. Why should Darko have been handed minutes? He would have learned that he didn't need to hustle to get PT. It was a bad situation -- ill-fated as soon as they gave him Sam Bowie's number -- but most of you Darko supporters are choosing to focus on everyone else's mistakes instead of Darko's. In the end, only Darko is responsible for how good a player he'll be.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Thanks for the laugh lazy. I needed that.
     
  19. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Tay is like the mortar between the bricks. Melo, is a brick. You might even call him a cornerstone but without players like tay, his teams will topple over under the strain.

    Is tay better than melo? I don't think so. Is Tay more valuable to us. I do think so.
     
  20. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    The fact that I live away from Detroit area may prevent me from getting all the news, but the situation as I understood it was this.

    Joe drafted a player that almost all the GMs would have drafted, if they had the chance. Joe hired a coach who disrespected that draft choice from the very beginning.

    His teammates and others who were interviewed said that he worked very hard in practice and the weight room. Even coach said he was doing well when asked that direct question by the press.

    He was put into some games sporadically, when Sheed or Ben was down, and as soon as he made a good or great play, he was jerked. When he was called in to make free throws and made them, he was jerked. After a while, people on the boards said that he did not try in garbage time. I will grant that he did not act like a rookie during those times. As time went by, he worked on other points of his game during garbage time. He worked on his longer shots when the board members were saying that he could not shoot long ones. He worked on his passing, and that is now a strong point of his game.

    As time went by, this situation continued. We were told that he would get his chance again last year, and then they went out and got Davis, "to play in the important games and the playoffs". Does anyone believe this is the rhetoric of a management system that is going to give Darko a legitimate shot to play?

    He had a great summer in Europe and the pre-season. I got down to the intra-squad game and saw that he was clearly competitive with the other bigs on the Pistons and was popular with his teammates.

    Then the "work ethics" started popping up and suddenly he was not as expected. So, he is gone. Well, he "asked to be traded".

    Any self-respecting employee who is worth his salt would not take that stuff forever. Getting paid well with no apparent respect or opportunity does not cut it. You have to keep your players feeling part of the team and use them when it is apparent to many that he could have solved a few problems. And this is especially true when his co-workers still say that he was the real thing. As does Joe.

    Sorry to be so long but I just cannot see how the Pistons gave him a fair chance and that is why I began all the defensive posts. I am for the underdog, a lot of the time, and he was one.

    But he isn't anymore. Whether he makes it, which I believe he will do, or if he fails, he now is getting his chance. That is all anyone can ask.
     

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