Darko

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Jackattaq, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Isiah might have been an %$#@ and maybe so was Bill Laimbeer but neither $%$#%$# the franchise over so if people are bitter about LB and Ben Wallace its warranted.

    IMO I missed they way the team played under LB. I have biases against Flip after one season which drives merc nuts. However, I think the franchise needs to get on the same page regarding its young assets. Joe talks about not interfering with his coaches but I think he needs to guide then a little more. i think, from reading off season articles, that he's starting to do that.
    I think 1 season on the bench is enough. by season 2 play them and figure out what you got.
     
  2. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy: "IMO I missed they way the team played under LB."

    Sliplpy, I certainly do, too. I loved it when they could lock down a team and the frustration would come boiling out. And when the Nets cheered when they lost by a carload of points, because they managed to get to 70, or something like that. :lock1:

    With the rules changes, I wonder if any team could lock anybody down like that, anymore
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I disagree that Ben screwed the franchise over. He was a free agent. He played here for very cheap, and at a very high level, helping lead the team to a championship.

    Ben made a business decision. I think Darko made a business decision. And I think LB made a business decision. If these moves hurt the franchise, such is life. In businesss there is frequently a winner and a loser. The Pistons will not always win on and off the court.
     
  4. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Amen. Pistons screwed themselves over by not having a contingency plan. Don't buy a valuable automobile with no insurance and complain about the bill when you get into a wreck.
     
  5. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    They made business decisions, however, emotions and egos perhaps played a larger role than necessary in those decisions.

    We know Ben`s personality, he had issues with every Pistons coach. Maybe, just maybe, his DPOY awards, and All Star appearances made him believe he could dictate to the coach how the Pistons should play, and when the Pistons said no, you are not the coach, he took his ball and went home. Seems like a business decision and anger to me, not to mention the refusal to enter the game incident, which probably sealed him leaving.

    LB, well we know the story. He had to leave sooner or later, it just came sooner. I wonder if he really thought he could turn the Knicks around with the talent he had on that team or was the money to overwhelming to turn down. I believe it was the latter.

    Darko, I`ll let someone else explain that move, or maybe I`ll say: TBD!!!!!
     
  6. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i don't mind ben leaving. i wanted him gone a long time ago. the reason i feel he screwed the franchise over is i think he gave joe something verbal saying he was going to sign. people forget that the trade was not darko straight up for cato and a pick. it also included the best backup pg in the nba. that's just a dumb trade.

    don't forget ben also wouldn't even listen to sign and trade offers. i think ben wanted to really stick it to the pistons when he left. he did it in the playoffs and after the season was over.

    darko's decision wasn't business. the kid just wanted to play. he was grossly overpaid for production all his years here. he just wanted to get some court time.

    it's not so much whether you make a business decision it's when and how you do it. lb's was during the playoffs and he is the coach of the team. ben's was midseason and throughout the playoffs and he was the supposed defensive anchor of the team. darko was at the start of the season and he was the 12th man.
     
  7. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Its amazing to me how you treat this thought which has not been confirmed by any source at all....not even the janitor at the Palace...as reality.

    If Ben, in fact, did not give a verbal would that change your mind? Would it change your mind if you found out that the Pistons gave him a verbal of a larger amount? Is that completely out of the realm of plausibility?
     
  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    When I first saw this thread, I said to myself "lemme see what Lazy, bball-jay, and 16 are cryin about now." Then to my surprise (without going back through all the posts in the thread) it looks like Big Ben has hijacked the thread.

    Lemme just say that I have it on "good authority" that the PRIMARY reason Ben left the way he did had more to do with the organization's treatment of his brother than anything else, including the money (although the money is nice and makes for a good PC excuse).

    If you've read anything about Ben's personal life, you know he is close to his family. I bet Da Bulls would not have banned Ben's brother for delivering an azz whooping to any player who was foolish enough to attack a fan (especially the WRONG fan) in the stands. Chicago wouldn't stand for it. Neither would Philly, Boston, New York or New Jersey. We shouldn't either.

    We should have hired Ben's brother on the spot. He was much more effective that the entire Palace security combined.
     
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Roscoe, what about the sign and trade? Grant Hill took $$ but at least left with a S&T.

    I'm not going to state for a fact there was an agreement but it doesn't make sense that you dump assets for cap space AND refuse to pay 'market value' to keep Wallace. People complain about the lack of a contingency. But ask the question: WHY? There are only two main reasons. Stupidity and Trust.
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Well, there could have been the assumption that whatever number they tossed at Ben he would accept. Is that stupidity, trust, or BOTH?
     
  11. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i highly doubt the pistons gave ben a verbal of a higher amount. mr. davidson is not willing to go over the luxury tax. giving ben 10 mil would be overpaying him. the guy is on decline and joe knows it.

    but yes i'll admit that it is a possibility. you must also admit that the way joe pulled the trigger on the trade it is likely that joe thought very highly of his chance to resign ben. i think the way the trade was so lopsided i figure ben must have gave a verbal.

    do you really think joe was all this time planning on signing nazr to replace darko and ben?? signing flip murray and will blaylock to replace carlos arroyo a true pg?? dude joe ain't that dumb. the team we see on the court this year is what happens when someone doublecrosses you and you scramble to make some things work.
     
  12. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I see your point.

    But I would also offer that when they didn't get the deal renegotiated prior to Ben's services being offered to the world...the writing was on the wall. From a business standpoint, the move really wasn't that surprising. The Pistons should have known better. I'm sure Dumars can't fault Ben at all for leaving. He needs to look at himself for not doing what was necessary to retain/trade him when he had control of the situation.
     
  13. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Saying Ben broke a promise sounds like reckless guesswork to me.
     
  14. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Good point mr. Hack. The wheels of the championship wagon didn't fall off when the trade was made. Probably there wasn't an agreement on signing but more like an attitude.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's pure speculation. You really have no idea what was said, right?

    Cato was the only guy had with an expiring deal the Pistons could create a deal with. This is CBA 101 stuff. No one else fit in Arroyo's salary range.

    Yeah, he's a Saint.

    Last night, Motown and I were chatting about the fantasy leagues, and ended up discussing how we want to like Darko, but his obsessive fans make it nearly impossible, hating everyone who comes into contact with DMC, and never admitting that he can do anything wrong. It's sad. Food for thought.
     
  16. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Mad Hatter"When I first saw this thread, I said to myself "lemme see what Lazy, bball-jay, and 16 are cryin about now." Then to my surprise (without going back through all the posts in the thread) it looks like Big Ben has hijacked the thread".



    Welcome back, Mad. I really missed you. There is just not anybody as good as you are at throwing verbal sneers at posters just because they have a different opinion than yours. :gun1: :stirthepot: .

    More fun, now :cheers: :dancingparty: !!

    No, really. Welcome back!!
     
  17. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    I don't get why anyone would like him anymore. He wanted it handed to him, even back in the day when ``Goin to Work'' really meant something. He was the antithesis of what made 2004 great. I for one, am bitter at Darko for screwing up my team's best shot at a superstar in 20 years. We deserved better.
     
  18. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    bball this is an outrageous accusation. i share you enthusiasm for darko milicic and look forward to him becoming a great and interesting NBA player. but the ben hate you fuel and nurture is just out of control, IMO. for god's sake, he's yesterdays newspaper as my dad would say. can't you find a new escape goat?
     
  19. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    just for clarification. nothing i say is fact. i only state my opinion on things based on evidence that i see.

    we gave up too much for nothing. i understand why joe would want an expiring contract but we gave up too much to get it. even the draft pick they gave us is protected. the better move would have been to trade ben and call down to flip and tell him to play darko. the loss of arroyo affected our championship hopes far more than a lot of people like ot admit.

    yeah. i give the kid some rope because he is just that a kid. people forget darko is just 21. the other people that everyone are taking up for are 60 and 30 years old. darko having attitude and expecting playing time should be expected from a 19 year old. i expect more from lb and ben. sorry.

    well you have your fellow posters to thank for that. i often came to the rescue of darko who was being raked over the coals for 23 seconds of play. i think the hatred was shot towards darko first. some of us take up for darko and some of us pick at his every weakness and mistake. my first desire to take up for darko was that i believed in him cause he was a piston. the other reason why i take up for him so much is i want to be right about him. now that the proof i was right about him is starting to show nobody wants to talk about it. i'm not trying to convince more people to like him i'm trying to convince people that this kid has game and we made a mistake letting him go for peanuts. membership to the dhof is closed to some of you guys anyway.
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i haven't liked ben for a long time. his ego trip this year sealed the deal for me. i don't have to like ben that's my choice. i'm kind of an extreme person i don't have a middle ground. i either like strongly or dislike strongly. i liked ben and darko at one point. my hatred of ben wasn't caused by my like of darko.
     

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