Darko

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Jackattaq, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I so disagree with that. Its flat out more money. I would think that $51 M would lose appreciation for 47K but not 9M
  2. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Let's remember that Darko was pretty young and unexperienced when we drafted him. That is a nice way of saying..project. I think that the other picks may have contributed sooner because they had more experience playing the US flavor of basketball, plus many had college experience. I'm struggling seeing Wade, Bosh, Kaman, Ford, Melo (fresh off a NCAA championship) and the rest not finding a way to get some playing time on this squad. I'm not buying it.
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    they had trouble getting playing time under lb in the olympics. lebron, wade and melo. why is it so hard to buy them not getting playing time under lb in detroit?? bosh rode the bench in this years world championships. memo okur had trouble finding playing time under lb and he was experienced.

    the truth is darko wasn't as much of a project as stated by some. he was inexperienced but the game was there. his jumpshot, the passing, the shot blocking was all there. he just didn't have experience which we should have gave him.
  4. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    they didn't work him out of the game plan. thats why we lost to miami. the best strategy against miami was to sit ben on the bench. when 2 straight playoff teams attack you by not checking ben and simply fouling him when you want a turnover it's time to change the game plan. but no flip stuck with ben because we wanted him to resign and we loss. we were playing 4 on 5 and he wasn't exactly stopping anybody in the miami or the cleveland series just ask shaq and verajao.

    they can have ben. i'll laugh at him when his inability to hit free throws is exposed again in the playoffs. i'll laugh when his desire to be a bigger part of the offense results in missed layups, free throws and a big yell of "oh" that i used to hate so much when he was a piston. good riddance. mcdyess is better than him.

    it doesn't have to be darko or ben. it's possible to like both. i just don't happen to like both of them. i aligned with darko because he wasn't given the chance to contribute. yes. i agree we wasted that pick. we wasted that trade too. i wear my darko jersey because not as many people have them.

    darko is good you don't have to deny that just because other people point it out. that's why i always cheered for darko i couldn't understand why so many people wanted him not to be a great player. he never did anything to anybody to deserve that. do you like wade?? he's overhyped. in the nba he's a superstar that can't miss and can't be touched. fiba he's average joe. nba is about hype believe it if you want. ben's dpoy is hype in my opinion. dude got schooled by numerous young big men last year. he got owned by shaq and made a fool of by verajao. if artest wasn't so crazy he'd be racking up the dpoy trophies.
  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    How deep do you think Ben and Chicago will go in the playoffs?
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    World Championships are a couple of weeks. We are talking about a complete NBA season. I see no comparison here. Try again. Besides, the calibur of players who played in front of them were on a whole much more talented than the Pistons starters.
  7. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    They did when they hired a coach that didn't put an emphasis on defense and when they decided to make Ben a one dimensional player again. His offense was evolving. There was a NBA championship series to back that up. Detroit is no longer a great defensive team. When they gave up the committment to "D", they effectively phased Ben out. Chicago is a better fit for him now. Period. So he left.

    Apples and oranges.

    Dice is better than Ben. (chuckle) You'd surely get fired making that move straight up if the salaries aligned. I won't even go there.

    One thing is for certain. You are still unable to see the positives in Ben's game, but Darko's talents are obvious to you. Absolutely amazing. lol. Here is a prediction: Ben's contribution to the Bulls will have nothing to do with his offense or ability to make free throws. I would actually venture to say that they are NOT expecting to get that out of him. That's not what they payed for. They payed for defense, rebounds, steals, hustle plays and leadership. I'm betting that they WILL get that out of him. So, the only people he stands the risk of not impressing are the ones who wern't impressed with his game in the first place. I'm sure he's really torn up about that ...with that measely 60 million dollar pay check of his. lol.

    I would agree that it is possible to like both, but you are the same person who preached that Darko should be taking Ben's place in the starting lineup in the playoffs. You've constantly spoke about how Ben stood in the way of Darko's development because of his supposed selfishness. My point is this. You are seemingly blind to the contribution Ben has had on Pistons basketball. So much that you don't express the slightest bit of gratitude for his role in returning us back to championship glory. However, as it pertains to Darko..you afford him every liberty in the world. He has done absolutely nothing for Pistons basketball. You obviously have an affection for players versus teams. I'm just pointing that out.

    Wade is a great player. Period. I agree that the NBA hype machine has done everything in their power to elevate him to Jordan status. Quite annoying, I admit. In fact, it bares a striking resemblance to the Darko worship we get subjected to by the Darko Hall of Fame Club (which is a joke, by the way). The only difference is that at least Wade has a championship now as a starting point for debate. No legitimate basketball analyst in the business would make such a ridiculous statement as to guarantee that Darko will be a Hall of Fame candidate. Its a stretch to even say he will be an all-star. Was Ben deserving of the Defensive Player of the Year award last year? Probably not. Being second to Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest is not such a bad thing. You'd be hard pressed to fine anyone else in the league better especially at guarding big men. He has a lot of gas in the tank and few can match his heart and determination. I will always be a fan of him and what he represents.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    As inefficient as Ben is on offense, he is very statistically efficient. In other words, he doesn't take very many bad shots. There is something to be said for that... especially when you have teammates that can score the rock.

    This post has nothing to do with Darko. Just defending Ben.
  9. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    marbury, richard jefferson?? better than lebron, wade??
    boozer,shawn marion?? better than melo??

    a lineup of rasheed wallace, mcdyess, and ben wallace isn't that easy to crack either. kaman or bosh wouldn't have cracked that lineup with only garbage minutes to prove yourself.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If one was prone to being smart, they would go back and look at the box scores for that Olympic team, and factor that the games were only 40 minutes long.

    Wade was the 3rd guard, and LeBron played a lot of minutes for a 19 year old.

    And yes, Boozer was much better than Melo at that time. He was the best small power forward in the NBA.
  11. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    ben is one dimensional. don't let a few lucky jump shots in the finals fool you. ben has zero offensive game. teams caught on to that oop play him and rip run. the nba gave up the committment to D so a 1 dimensional player who has an ego problem isn't worth the 12 the pistons offered him. yes. chicago is a better fit for him.

    mcdyess battled back from a possible career ending injury. he is a shell of himself and he still is better than ben. lets see what happens when ben gets a serious ankle injury or basic knee injury. arnie isn't around anymore to keep him in good health. ben simply has nothing else to fall back on besides athleticism and that's been leaving him over the last few years. mcdyess is a 20 and 10 player in this league. ben is a 10 and 11. our best lineup was with mcdyess and sheed on the floor not with ben out there. watch with increased minutes we are going to get increased production out of dice and we won't miss ben.

    no. i can see ben has a few talents. it's just in todays nba his talent doesn't make up for his shortcomings. ego, lack of size, free throw shooting, ball hog.

    ben had a contribution in the past and it was time to step aside. lindsey understands his game is on decline and he accepts a reduced role. ben wasn't willing to do that. that's what i don't like about ben. ben isn't a piston why are you defending him. you must like players versus teams.

    darko should have started over ben because he is effective on both ends of the court. miami wouldn't have employed hack a darko. cleveland would have had to check darko. shaq would get tired of running endless pick and rolls with darko. the best defense against shaq is to let him tire himself out.

    darko had a championship first. your membership in the dhof is still pending because of that statement.

    basketball analyst have to play it safe. you have to be a visionary to see how good darko is going to be. you have to have blinders on not to see that he has the tools at 21 that most nba pf/c don't have 10 years into their careers. he's won a title in detroit. he's going to be a cornerstone of the orlando turnaround. him and d.howard are going to patrol the east for 10 years of thier prime.

    yeah. ben did really well checking verajao and shaq. ben's defensive skills are part of the hype machine.he can't check anybody with size anymore. he is running on fumes. i question his heart now ever since he was afraid to re enter battle against darko and d.howard during crunch time.
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    you also have to factor in the amount of shots his teammates don't score because of ben's man. rips curls aren't as effective, tay/sheed/chauncey can't post up. ben is efficient if he was willing to play his role on offense. clean up the boards and catch oops.
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    wade shouldn't have been the 3rd guard. pat riley and ron jeremy are smart. wade barely rest.

    lebron was a prodigy. mike brown is smart lebron rarely leaves the court.

    boozer was better in the nba maybe. melo is the better suited for the fiba play at forward.
  14. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    You are hilarious today. Why do I try? lol.

    Again, his game was evolving. They stopped that process. The oop play was used continuosly because thats all Flip trusted him doing. Now he is one dimensional again. At least you can admit that Chicago is better suited for his talents. Jeesh. Ego? What a joke. Played his best years for the Pistons for peanuts compared to his value and now he has an ego. Whatever.

    Yeah, the Ben we've come to love definitely has a conditioning problem. No way he works hard in the offseason to prevent injury. He'll completely forget everything Arnie has taught him during the years. Whatever. Weak. Weak. Weak. And your Ben/Dice comparison is missing a couple of stats: Do blocks, steals and untracked deflections, and the ability to draw a charge ring a bell? Oh yeah, none of those are important to you.

    A few talents. LMAO! Ball hog? That's hilarious. I don't think there is a player that has deffered shots more in Pistons history outside of Dennis Rodman. Again, you don't see all of the intangibles he provides as being significant. You are obviously a fan of the NEW NBA Stern is trying to ram down our throats. You are drinking the kool-aide if you think that Defense will no longer win championships. 60% of defense is effort and desire. In the end, you have to make the neccesary stops to win a championship. I think you really underestimate Ben's impact on the game.


    Very funny, but you missed the point. The point was that I appreciate players that have contributed to the Pistons championship legacy. Vinnie Johnson was traded before he retired, but I will always appreciate his contribution. The same way I will appreciate Ben's place in Pistons history. Darko has done nothing except be the posterchild for Joe Dumars's mistakes as a GM. ..and you love Mr. Darko to pieces. I don't expect you to see the connection anymore bballjay. You can now continue to do your fire engine jig in your Darko jersey. :)

    Yeah, place a guy who hardly plays and is still feeling his way around the court in the game instead of perennial all-star with tons of playoff experience. Thank God you're not behind the bench.

    Keep it. I just bought a 12 pack of Toilet Paper, your membership won't be necessary. The fact that you proudly consider Darko a champion first, tells the whole story. Certainly Darko's contribution to the championship is on par with Dwayne Wade's. Are you serious? More credibility flew out the window.

    Actually they don't have to play it safe, they just have to sound intelligent. Most will say he has alot yet to prove if you are making an honest attempt at being subjective.

    Can't check anybody with size anymore? Scared of Darko and D.Howard?

    Ben: "I'll check Shaq, but Darko on the other hand...."

    :pound:

    I'm done with this topic my friend.

    Thanks for the debate. I'm sure I've got absolutely nowhere with you. lol.
  15. DReDD

    DReDD Second Round Draft Pick

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    Lay off the pipe man, you're making Bill Walton look sane by comparison ;)

    Ben didnt leave for the money, he left because he was shut out of Flip's shytstem. Also keep in mind there more to offense than scoring/shooting/free throws.....there's passing, setting picks, etc.
  16. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    "Also keep in mind there more (is) to offense than scoring/shooting/free throws.....there's passing, setting picks, etc."

    Can't say I remember Ben making a passes to anyone or setting picks much at all.

    I do remember him getting rebounds for second shots. Come to think about it, I do remember him getting some rebounds and making some outlet passes. I just don't remember him like in a play, drawing the defense to him and passing for an assist. Stuff like that.

    Sure is fun talking about Ben in the Darko thread. :pound: :pound:
  17. DReDD

    DReDD Second Round Draft Pick

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    Isn't it strange how ex-Pistons get the most posts here??? :pound:


    Truth be told, I can't remember anyone doing that much under Flip other than Chauncey or Rip ;)

    Anyways, I'm not trying to say Ben did that much this year (coach's fault), I'm just pointing out to bball jay (trying to anyways) that offense isn't just scoring,. All that Ben-hate is just ... unhealthy :flame:


    Edit: for commentary

    Seeing all the parenthesis in my posts make me feel like Mr. Subliminal (send me money) ;)
  18. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    It's a really fascinating phenomenon. My favorite Piston is Rip Hamilton. He is the least talked about Piston starter. I don't know why no one ever talks about Rip.At first I thought it was because of his mid-range game. I thought maybe people just think his mid-range game isn't exciting enough (I love it!). But last season he was the most improved 3 pt shooter and still no one talks about him. He plays all the way through the playoffs with a bum ankle, gets 40 points in a playoff game, manages to score night in and night out whether his shots are falling or not by getting to the line and still no one ever talks about Rip. Maybe he's just not controversial enough. I'm wondering if anyone thinks Rip has team leadership skills. I figure Chauncey will be the team leader this year but if he doesn't re-sign, then maybe Rip or Tay will be the team leader. I wonder if Rip can take that role if its available.

    And yes I know this is the Darko thread, but....well...it's so much fun to be off-topic in here. And we're certainly getting plenty of Darko airtime anyway.:)
  19. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Geezus. Embarassing is right. What tripe in here! ``Ben doesn't pass'' and ``McDyess is better than Ben'' are my favorites. Shameful after four playoff runs that anybody should be confused about how this all works.
  20. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    aurorakmw, that is correct. I think Rip is the real unsung mainstay of this team and because of his consistency and lack of problems, we ignore him on the forums. I have talked about him on other forums more than on this one.

    Another thing, he plays every game under the threat that he takes another hard blow to the nose and really comes out seriously, seriously injured.

    I really like to watch him, at times watching him more than the rest of the game.

    He deserves his own thread.

    (I'm sorry, Darko. Another hi-jack in progress)

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