Delfino or Evans... make your case

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Sometimes we become influenced by the amount of times we hear things.
    We hear how badly Evans is playing by his +/- for the game.
    So there must be some validity to Delfino taking over his minutes.

    Certainly Delfino is better at:
    • Shooting
    • Rebounding
    • setup man
    • turns it over less
    • FT's
    Based on what evidence?

    Well that doesn't take into account the +/- stats of Evans vs Delfino

    Here's the proof

    Ok but Evans plays more minutes... you have to take into account the 48 minutes stats (most overused useless stat)

    48 minutes will prove it right?

    So why do we keep hearing over and over that Evans can't hold Delfino's jock?... where is this proof?
     
  2. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Very interesting glad your not as lazy as I'am.:yawn: Thanks for the info on the team.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    I like both players. Evans for his offensive rebounding and 3-pt shooting and Delfino for his height and slashing ability.

    Delfino has a better upside and Evans is the more polished player. Striking difference for me is in their heights. Evans is too short to play backup SF most nights.

    I actually can see Delfino eventually taking most of the mins but for now Evans is the better choice in many circumstances.
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Or could it be neither of them is the answer?

    Here's a recent quote from Joe to ESPN.

    "Maybe adding one more guy off the bench, adding one more piece to the bench that would have impact," he told ESPN.com.
    The boss says: "Obviously we're happy with the record, but we're pushing our guys as hard as ever because you want to fight any complacency whatsoever. For us, it's not so much about the record. It's about playing for the playoffs."
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    4th big

    Could he have been referring to getting a 4th big that the coach would actually play?
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I like Delfino, but I am not seeing much more from him than we saw prior to his knee injury. He's got skills. We know he can play ball from his Euroleague experience. He's not a conventional rookie. Adapating to the N-A game perhaps, but something is missing...

    Mo is a scrub. He's a young Darvin Ham with range. I was excited about him, but he's really looked like a rookie in sets on either end of the floor. Hustle can only make up for so much when you don't command rebounding position, lack good handles and cannot create your own shot. He's really not that much of an upgrade over Dupree.

    I'm not sure either is the answer. I'd like to think that Joe is cooking something up.

    Here is a curveball. How much of our poor bench play outside of Arroyo and Dice can be attributed to the fact that our starting five is simply too comfortable with one another? It's like Larry forged this elite unit of guys that are amazing as a whole, but don't integrate well with others. Just throwing it out there for discussion.

    I know it sounds a little simple, but man would I like to see what JMax has got. There is no reason in my mind to think that he can't have a "Prince-like" impact in his rookie year.

    And one more...

    Is this chase for the best regular season record compromising our development of a deeper roster? I'm not talking about Darko, but specifically Evans and Delfino, two guys who should be seeing regular and consistent minutes as the primary backups for Tay and Rip.
     
  7. Sycamore Sam

    Sycamore Sam First Round Draft Pick

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    Funny stuff. As most of the league knows by now, Delfino is just a step above milicic. That would mean he gets the garbage time and milicic gets the pine time. Evans can at least play.
    The title of this thread could be Delfino or milicic:state your case!
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ski, you are such an instigator.
     
  9. Sycamore Sam

    Sycamore Sam First Round Draft Pick

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    Everything I've seen from Delfino indicates it. No instigation intended, I stand by my post.
     
  10. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    About your curveball not far off the only one that really fits in outside of the 5 is the sixth starter Dice.Not saying others don't come in and do good but the 5 as a whole play much better with themselves.We talked about this before the 5 are so good when they push to be.With homecourt do we take it last year?Is that the thinking this year without injury and with homecourt do we take it with a short bench relying heavily on the 5.They are focusing really badly on homecourt to overlook them thinking they can do it with little bench play except with Shaq foul rules.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't like more development from the bench I think it's insurance.But we know how confident this group thinks they are and except for a 4th quarter stretch in game 7 we did make a hell of a run without homecourt advantage.Not many thought we'd take Miami or San An to 7 in either series.

    As far as this threads main topic everyone said Flip coming in he liked to play the mismatches that he never really had a set rotation it could change at anytime depending on what the other team's weakness was.Is he trying to see what he can do with Del and Evans what and who they are good against?Unless we make a move run Arroyo,Dice,Del and Evans off bench for playoffs?They both depending on what you need have good games.How much longer and how deep are we gonna experiment if at all?Homecourt throughout isn't in the bag yet.
     
  11. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, from what I see we need a slasher. We need someone who can break down opponents with a dribble and go in much like Manu does for the Spurs. Delfino is not our best player with that skill set but is better at it than Mo.

    I like Mo for his hustle, rebounding but we don't need another guy who waits on the wing for a 3. We have lots of those. We need someone to create. Delfino can do that.

    I'm not saying don't play Mo, it's just that Delfino should play more. THen again, I'm not the coach....
     
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That's a pretty good response... if C.D. could actually finish his drives or find the open man he may build a case for increased minutes.
    I'm not convinced about him being even a decent defender or that he can get to a ball quicker than Evans (instincts, timing & hops).
    I will agree with the higher ceiling for Delfino... to date nothing has been proven.
     
  13. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, a quick glance at the numbers would have me describe the two of them this way. First, forget the names and faces. If I were to tell you that we have two guys (player D and player E) ~ 6-5/6-6 that were our primary backups at the 2/3 spots, I would describe them this way:

    Both guys are halfway decent shooters but player D can't hit a 3 to save his wife. In fact, this cat ought to be shootin a 3 about as often as Big Ben. Player D is also only marginally better than Big Ben from the foul line.

    Player E averages about four times as many offensive rebounds as player D, about the same number of defensive rebounds; and he averages almost twice as many total rebounds as player D.

    Both players are about even in assists but player E averages eight times as many steals as player D, twice as many blocks, but turns the ball over less, and plays much more agressively (# of fouls).

    Player D plays about 2/3s of the minutes that player E plays - coaches decision.

    Stepping back from the numbers and viewing them with my own eyes, well....the numbers confirm my opinion.

    Merc, glad to hear that Joe recognizes the need for an "impact" player off the bench. Let's hope he's serious about this one.
     
  14. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree that we need an upgrade at the 2/3, preferably along the lines of the players we were trying to pursue in the offseason (a guy who can put the ball in the bucket).

    If I thought we could get that kind of a player, I would more readily include Evans' salary in a deal than Delfino's, because, although you can argue that Evans is marginally more effective now (although ONLY marginally) I think Delfino will be the better player in the long run. I honestly don't see Evans getting much better than what we're seeing right now.

    I doubt that any trade would be for another big. I suspect Joe D is happy enough with what we have there, and a 2/3 who can spell Tay and Rip would (I think) have a greater positive impact.
     
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Re: Delfino or Evans... make your case---Hat

    After reading your post I still couldn't tell the 2 apart. Give and take on both parts. I can see why Flip put Fino on KingJ, wouldn't Amir have been a better choice? Put Fino on Wade. Put Evans on A.I. Pick your matchups better. Put BBen on KingJ or Dyess.:confused:
     
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A quick glance at the last couple of games would tell you

    1)Player A is barely taller than Eric Snow.

    2)Player A, although given a quick shot at it by his coach, could not even begin to guard Wade or Bron. Which is by the way the reason he was given a shot with this team.

    3)Player A, having no clue about offensive sets, has now been told to park himself over in the corner and stay there until further directed where to go next.

    4)Player A, upon shooting the ball, mostly misses by the way, gawks while the other team is fast breaking. At least I noticed this is something he is very consistent at.

    5) Player A, in a defensive rebounding situation, rather than bodying up, just stands around watching the game.

    6) Player A just missed 4 shots all very badly in his last game.

    7) Player A was minus 19 late in the 2nd half of the last game, while his team was down 20 points. In other words, the game was pretty even in the minutes he did not play.

    At this point. Who cares who player B is. Put him in.
     
  17. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    I see Delfino actually contributing when he is in there, not just taking up space. Just my opinion.

    I agree, Evans should be playing for the Rptros or somthing, the miss Jerome Williams right?
     
  18. vthomp

    vthomp First Round Draft Pick

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    The big thing in the NBA is Defense first and whatever else you can do. For the future I will go with Delfino. ANy time when a player has the ability to create his own offense thats the player you want to have grow wiht your team. Delfino range is unlimited from anywhere on the court.

    I like Delfino becuase he can run a offense if given the responsibilty. The guy can play in a half court game and also can run a break. He is the future of the Detroit Pistons if they decide to run with this guy. We have a future Manu on our hands with this guy and if we ever in the next two years have too make a decision if have to be Delfino over Evans.:ohwell:
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You got it very correctly. We thought when he came that Evans was our answer to another defender on the likes of Wade and Bron. But the last two games, it turns out the coach is liking and trusting Delfino, not Evans, for this type of task. Whether someone thinks Delfino is a good defender or not, this particular thread is about choosing between Evans and Delfino. All we need to know is that Delfino defends better than Evans. I'd personally say Delfino does a lot better than most imagined on defense.

    So with that criteria figured out, that Delfino outdoes Evans on defense, Evans would really have to be something on the offensive side of things to beat out Delfino. But per the coach, Delfino is our best creator of offense, and our 2nd best guy at moving without the ball. Nothing else really needs to be said after that. The only mystery to me is why Evans is still playing as much as he does.

    Believe it or not, I am not that much pro Delfino. For instance, at the start of this season (start of preseason), I would have been perfectly ok with Arroyo and Billups doing a 3 guard rotation, and Evans being the backup to Prince. Shortly after the preseason began, I saw that Evans could not handle the ball, but I imagined that would still be ok since he was playing small forward and not shooting guard. But then I saw that Evans was too short to guard small forwards, so could really only sub for Rip. Now warning bells started going off. And then it got worse. Any good offensive shooting guard turned out to be more than Evans could handle. Most point guards are too fast for him. Wait a moment.

    Even then, a lot of the time I called for Acker, Maxiell, or Amir Johnson to be added to the rotation to replace Evans, guys who I see as capable of adding defense for us.

    But now I am getting a new respect for Delfino as a defender, and am supporting him a lot more to take these minutes. As a Piston fan, I appreciate good D above most anything else. At this point, Delfino has made a believer out of me, and I sure hope he soon makes a believer out of eveyone.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Delfino still cannot defend his shadow. Evans has been bad, but I think that Delfino would be equally as bad given the same opportunities.

    Delfino can create though. It's a skill that Evans sorely lacks.

    If Delfino had Evans' aggressiveness and 3 point shooting, he would be the complete package. It's a wash who is the better rebounder.

    In a season lacking any real drama (where is LB when you need him?), we have to resort to complaining about Darko and Delfino's "development".

    Here's one to ponder. Evans was better than Delfino in Euroleague. Does that mean he is destined to be a worse NBA player? :eyebrows:
     

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