Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by ggazoo69, Jul 13, 2006.
You mean that new Atlanta Hawk Speedy guy? One more option off the desk.
Supe, it's nice to read a balanced, considerate opinion. Great job. As far as going to the hole, keep in mind that it's not just a matter of "drawing up plays." The Pistons were assembled on the cheap, with affordable players whose skills weren't as flashy as the high flying finishers. Rip and Chauncey are never going to score a lot inside, plain and simple. We have three or four guys who can finish, but none of them are exactly great drivers, so the Pistons will need different personnel before they can start slashing anyone to ribbons.
What has Carlos done for us lately.... I would challange the idea that he has contributed when getting PT... the contributions were few and far between... at what point does performance come into play?... back to the Chicken & Egg debate. As some people are tired of the bashing, I would also say some folks are tired of the endless excuses. I don't mind having a little fun at his expense... but if he would keep his yap shut, put down the playstation and actually produce when he does get a chance, this hard ass (me) would change his stance on him... So what do we get? Can't play the SL and the Euro games... not working out or picking up a basketball...uh, works fine for Pavlovic. Can't play well without enough PT... OK, make them take notice like Amir did when he finally got a shot (much less than Delfino)... it's not like Delfino never got minutes. In otherwords... just shut up and do something. Last year it was the "Playstation"... this year it's "gone fishin"... time to cut bait? Who the hell has the nerve to use a playstation on the bench while the coach is trying teach the finer points to the kids?
I guess I missed the part of the season where Flip did anything to teach anyone. Can you point that out to me? And can you give me some evidence of what he did to teach the finer points of anything to the kids? No I didn't think so. He led by example. Suck up to the coach (Mo), and you'll play whether you can dribble the damn ball or not.
The playstation incident was during last years SL... it was Larry Brown's staff. Less talk (I want to be with another team)... more action (make jumpers convert inside)... not too much to ask.... I guess both coaches are meanies to po po Carlos.
I don't believe that Mo Evans sucked up to Flip and that was the cause of Delfino's diminished PT. I hate seeing Mo (Darvin Ham) being made the scapegoat for merely coming into a game when asked and trying to contribute as best possible with a limited skillset. Everyone one of these guys is fighting for a payday. Is Mo supposed to pull a McDyess and ask Flip to let Delfino play instead? This isn't a movie where the bad ass kid who was thrown out of practice gets to come into the big game when the players lobby the coach to give him another chance. In my opinion, Delfino doesn't suck, but he ain't all that and a bag of chips either. Too much is made of this guy's lack of PT. He's a late first round pick. Many of them washout. C'est la vie. He's got the same pedigree/obligation to PT as Jason Maxiell who is 8 months younger. Like Darko, it's the hyperbole that gets to some people. What he CAN do, not what he DOES do. We'll find out this season. Flip played Darko until it was diminishing returns, so the same will probably happen with Playstation. How hard and bad he wants it will be tested. @ dba re: foreign press, I don't mind that he is frustrated, just that it seems to come out on FIBA.com before FREEP.com or DETNEWS.com first. Are the beat writers ignoring this story (they seem to constantly play catchup on the foreign press), or does he think that an interview back home is the time to get macho about his future? One thing is for sure. His timing sucks. Last year once during the Finals, again during the Larry Brown settlement, and this year during the Summer League. You would like to think that Joe has other things he would rather be dealing with.
Don't know. Maybe the Detroit locals don't speak Spanish. Or maybe they're just treating him like a third string player in the NBA, i.e., not worth the trouble. Maybe in Argentina a thing string NBA player on the national team is a hot interview, while in Detroit it's something to do when there isn't anything else to write about and it's really convenient.
I think the guy does use his hometown press to send messages. Things that he would not want to say here. Can we really blame him? All this talk about how valuable he is and all the times Flip told him he would play and not playing him. Getting left off the 05 playoff roster for Darvin Ham. And what if we would have signed Bonzi Wells? Another year watching from the bench for Delfino.
Have to disagree mon ami Of course he did, but I don't blame Mo. Of course Mo is going to take all the PT he can get, it's Flip's responsibility to play the best player, not his favorite player No comparison, Delfino has proven he can play in the NBA, singlehandedly brought us back in a game last year, and has tremendous upside, with only a few (but correctible) flaws (shooting) in his game. Delfino will also have a long NBA career, and is a player that a lot of teams would like to have. In real game time, JMax has shown he's not ready. Has a lot of flaws in his game (lack of height, ft shooting, slow, lack of rebounding), and I doubt he will be in the NBA 3 years from now. Flip never had any intentions of playing Darko, he was only looking for an excuse to bench him. His timing is perfect, about time a player said enough of playing favorites, enough of being content to play on the bench. If I'm better than the guy ahead of me, play me. Also, CD has to look out for his own interests, cause the Pistons definately arent. His contract is almost up, and if he is going to get anywhere near his fair value, he needs to show on the court what he can do. Darko made himself of ton of money by getting traded.
That's EXACTLY what Flip did. Play the best player. Ain't that the reason you hate Hunter? If shooting is his flaw, why ain't you calling for him to take his azz to the gym and PRACTICE. Instead of fishing? The standard "misery loves company" position. Try to deflect attention from the real culprit. J-Max had a MUCH BETTER rookie year than did Delfino. Plus J-Max ain't somewhere fishing instead of working on his game. The standard "LB, Flip, and Joe are plain ole meanies" position. A-kin to the "Free Pass Wavers" crew. You're on a roll 16! :Cry: Speaking of the "riff" between Mo and Delfino, it's quite clear to me what it was about. Mo was kickin his azz in practice. I can almost see Delfino now. Going to Flip and Joe with a tear in his eye saying "Mo won't let me shoot Flip, Joe. Why is he being so mean?" "If you guys won't let me play I'mma go back to Europe!"
Just a couple questions Mad. If Mo was the better player, why did Joe trade him and not CD? Wasn't CB a sub .400 shooter the first few years of his career, until he got consistant playing time, though Hunter has never been able to cross the Mendoza line? In what way did JMax have a better rookie year? Before his injury Delfino was playing about 15 mpg, as a legitimate member of the bench. JMax has yet to play non garbage time, and there are only 8 months between them. I know everyone thinks I dislike JMax because I like Darko. But the reality is I just don't think he is at best a sub par NBA player, like Michael Curry, Darvin Ham, and Maurice Evans (though he's probably better than Mikki Moore). And if LB was such a good judge of player talent, why are the players that he thought sucked (Okur, Mike James, Darko, and soon to be Smush and Delfino) getting or about to get such big contracts? BTW, the Knicks youngsters gave the same whine about Larry as Delfino and Darko, and they played horribly under Larry this year. If you watched any of the summer league, these guys under Isaiah, a players coach, have absolutely torched every team they played, including our boys.
@16, I don't have time to address all of your points, and am happy to accept an agree to disagree for now. But Isiah is coaching guys who played a ton as NBA regulars and even at times starters in the SL. I wouldn't read too much into this. After all, Cheikh Samb and Maxiell gave a near MVP (Stoudemire) all he could handle... Darko may not have made himself a lot of money. With Ben bolting, his window for a payday in Detroit next season was wide open as was PT. In Orlando, he's in the uncomfortable situation of a young team with several talents they have to commit finances to in the near term. You may not think much of Mo, but Lakers fans are pretty high on him. While some may think this is ridiculous, dare I say that Delfino has not been traded because he doesn't have as much trade value as Maurice?
That would mean Delfino has a pretty slim trade value.
haha, yea, I was just thinking that. I cant think of much less that we could get in a deal for Delfino than we did for Mo. Joe dumped him because he's high on delfino and wants him to get a chance. Didn't you hear Joe's interview on the radio after the season?
16, Roscoe took the words right out of my mouth re trade value. However, I always though Delfino had more "upside" than Mo...it just did not translate into performance. One thing is for certain. Mo will never be called a "whiner" or a "crybaby." Why would you endorse any player with that label? In his rookie year, Delfino did what he's doing now. Vacationing. He has NEVER been called a "hungry rookie." In fact, he's never been called a "hungry 2nd year player" either. That tag is reserved for youngsters who play like they want it. Have you seen the stat line for J-Max today? Against a proven pro no less. Since when did Delfino ever produce such stats against "inferior competition," much less proven pros? If Michael Curry, Darvin Ham, and Mo Evans are "sub par NBA players" as you call them; and ALL of them played ahead of Delfino, what does that make Delfino? When you answer that, come with something better than the "mean ole coach/GM" excuse. Besides, the trading deadline is a long way away. What will you say when Acker and/or Amir beat out Delfino for PT? Certainly it can be said that they have a head start. Now, if you don't like players who "can't shoot," a-la Curry, Ham, Hunter and Evans (according to you), what makes Delfino exempt from that? Why not be consistent, regardless of the player? Why the free pass?
Have to agree. One nice thing about next year, their arent any HOF or hater clubs left (except for Flip, and I think everyone is pretty unanimous in their contempt for his performance last season). Whether I think JMax is an NBA player or not, I really like the kid, and hope he proves me wrong. As for JMax, Amir, Acker, and Delfino next year, it's win now baby, put up or shut up. The only "potential" left on this team are Blalock and Samb, and Samb will be in Europe.
As I get older, I keep expecting to know how things will play out, and they don't go that way. Lesson? Prepare to be surprised. That's what Joe said the year before. If I believed everything Joe says on the radio, Larry Brown would still be a Piston, Darko would still be a Piston, Ben would still be a Piston and we would be spending the offseason building a team 8 deep. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Those are just how he wanted things to play out. Some work out, some don't. I'm sure in his best case scenario, LB and Ben would still be here, and Darko would be developed and playing here. Unfortunately, other factors stood in the way. (Bill D's ego with LB, Ben's ego with Ben, and Bill D's bank account with Darko) This is a different situation. It's a little too coincidental for me that about a week after Joe was on the radio talking about really being disappointed that Delfino didn't play more, the thing standing between him and PT (Mo Evans) was traded for virtually nothing. With Darko, Joe never really came out and said that he thought he deserved more PT. It was always "he's not ready", "He's still young", or "He has to earn it". By the sounds of it, he thought Delfino already did earn it.
I try to avoid replying to you, but this was too funny.... What the hell do you think Max is going to be doing from this point untill training camp? You know, while Delfino is training everyday with the Argentina NT. For a much longer period than the 2 weeks of Summer League. Sorry, but don't use this as an argument unless you're with both of these guys every day of the week and know what exactly they're doing all summer long. Not knocking Max (I'm a fan, obviously), but you don't have a clue what exactly these guys are/will be doing.
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