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Delfino vs Evans Round 3

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Superstarov, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I know that I started to think about who should come off the bench behind Tayshawn based on his apparent collapse towards the end of the playoffs last year and his fairly lackluster performance through most of this season. Now over the last, what, ten games?, he has played bigger, but the notion of who spells him seems pretty important for determining how this team will do in the second season.

    Evans was brought in specifically to play behind Prince and keep him fresh for the playoffs. I surely hope that whole extra minute of rest per game Prince has this year versus last is keeping him fresh, but on the whole I think you have to consider the Evans backup plan a failure. Productivity for the three spot has not gone up. And if you follow the numbers, as I occasionally do, and normalize for the slightly different number of minutes played per game, Evans and Delfino are neck and neck –

    Points per game – ME 5.0 / CD 4.4
    Boards per game – ME 2.1 / CD 2.2
    Assists per game – ME 0.5 / CD 0.9
    Steals per game – ME 0.5 / CD 0.3
    Blocks per game – ME 0.2 / CD 0.3

    I could make a long argument using the pword, but I think that’s already been made a few times. Delfino has the p to get better but with Evans what you see is what you get. He’s 28 and has three NBA seasons behind him as well as some time out of the country. He’s going to do what he has been doing. Don’t expect anything else. Delfino with some game time and the right situation might not be the second coming of Manu Ginobili, but could be a decent NBA player, particularly off the bench.

    None of that matters all that much as we approach forty games in forty days. The playoffs aren’t the time to see if your young guys have some p. (Although it did work for Prince a couple of years ago.) If you really want to think about the rotation, considering all, I think you have to say that the best backup three we have is Rip. It doesn’t seem all that hard to imagine Delk coming in and pushing Rip over to the three spot. Against most teams, the scrappy Rip that we see more and more of ought to be able to buy some minutes for Prince to rest. Hunter gives CB some rest and Delk’s minutes go up.

    As much as I like to talk up Delfino, the time for on the job training is gone. It’s time to get the eight guys that are going to play and work out a rotation that keeps them as fresh as possible. Unfortunately for Evans and Delfino, that bench is going to be Dice, Delk, and Hunter.
     
  2. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I might have been a little off the mark with the "go small" prediction.

    Flip claimed on WDFN today that he's going to use Rasheed Wallace as the backup 3 in some situations, with Dice/Ben/Dale filling out the 4 and 5. It's a convenient way of both getting Delfino and Evans out of the rotation and playing the bench bigs more, so he might even be telling the truth this time. As usual, we'll have to see it to believe it, but it's not a bad idea. It's not exactly innovative, but it's not as ultraconservative as LB's offenses either.

    Either way - small or big - Delfino and Evans have been shelved. dba is exactly right.
     
  3. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well your twisting my words here a bit my friend...a guess a bit of hyperbole on your part and of course I'm guilty of some of that myself. Here's the problem as I see it....

    In your mind?How do you know how dedicated he is? Do you have Joe Dumars cell phone number? Hair cut by the same barber?

    Now finding Delfino's place in the history of the NBA's best defensive stoppers? Good God!

    So you've seen "stretches" of brilliant performance from Delfino (as we all have) but you infer from that that Delfino is a "fantastic defensive player". My question to you is do you know what the word extrapolate means?
    To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information.

    My friend you are guilty of extrapolating in the first degree!:doh: (Not that's there's anything wrong with it)


    The point I am trying to make and I think you missed is that a lot of us like Delfino but Good God man don't try to "prove" something you don't have any proof for...It's your opinion fine but it's based on very little fact at this point.

    I do agree with you and other that we should go with Delfino and sit Evans. Neither one has set the world on fire but Carlos clearly the better player. Let him get some minutes. Let him show us how good his is. I think that's the common ground we can agree on.:nod:
     
  4. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Well, I don't think I was extrapolating to such an extent that the word extrapolation becomes a proper description.:laugh:

    When I said dedicated, I meant a few things. First of all, Delfino sometimes cheats on screens and gets burned, a tendency that's become more common as he's regressed in the past few weeks. When he fights through the screens, he sticks to his man and prevents penetration like very few defenders in the NBA. The other thing is that his defense is sometimes technically sound - he forces players into difficult shots - but betrays a lack of knowlege of their tendencies and favorite spots. Against Dallas last week, for example: he got Stack to shoot a contested fadeaway, but it was from one of his favorite spots on the baseline where he'll shoot 80% blindfolded. Delfino is strong enough, athletic enough, and tenacious enough to prevent almost any player in the NBA from getting to his sweet spots consistently, but his defense isn't always informed by knowledge of the player he's guarding - although, to his credit, he seems to usually get better possession-by-possession when he gets significant time. That could be confusion about his role, but I think more likely it's a lack of preparedness and, to a lesser degree, experience. When he plays defense intelligently, he is at least comparable to any elite defender in the NBA you care to name. He doesn't always do that, but there have been enough specific samples of it this season that I think it's fair to say he's definitely capable of it. The word "extrapolating" to me implies a large leap that I don't think I'm taking.
    That's a good point. OK, I'll acknowledge that.
    Actually, not really. :eyebrows:I think both Delfino and Evans should sit until next season. With only 8-9 games to go we need to finish up preparations for the playoffs, and I don't think that's enough time to both give the players a chance, develop chemistry, and adjust the rotations within the context of those preparations. I don't think that either of them would be an important contributor in the playoffs under these circumstances. I'm just glad that they don't have to be.
     
  5. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    For what it's worth, half the guys on one Orlando Magic fan board are wondering how they can "steal" Delfino from us like they did Darko. The other half are sticking up for DeShawn Stevenson.

    That's when you know you're bad off.
     
  6. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well, I guess you're just a pseudoextrapolator then ahb.

    That's true. Very true Lanierfan.
     
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    The Delfino/Evans "regressing" thing is completely overblown. Their minutes have completely regressed and their impact on the game has followed suit. I can guarantee you that if the trend continues next year where neither get more than 5-6 minutes a game, then we are going to be making a "Delfino vs. Evans Round 8" thread a year from now, because neither are going to stand out in those kind of minutes. The only kind of player that will shine in those minutes are guys who get tons of shots up in limited time (Delk). Neither Delfino or Evans are those types of players.

    Did Tayshaun look like anything great in his rookie year untill he got big minutes in the playoffs?

    Tayshaun's rookie year (23 yrs old): 10.4mpg, 3.3ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.24 spg, 0.50 TOpg
    Delfino this year (23 years old): 10.3mpg, 3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.25 spg, 0.48 TOpg
     
  8. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    It was enough that he didn't look like Michael Curry.
     
  9. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Well, first of all, that's not very hard. Second of all, that's not exactly true. If it weren't for Curry sucking it up in the 1st round of the playoffs, Tayshaun may have never gotten that shot. The fact remains that it wasn't untill Tayshaun got big minutes in the playoffs that he "broke out". Yet Delfino (or Mo) is expected to "break out" in 5-6 minutes a game. It just doesn't happen.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    ahb,
    Thanks for the comments from Flip.
    Using Sheed at the three in certain situations makes good sense...
    Not neccessarily for some of the quick SF's... but for SF's that like to post up this could work.
    I'd like to see the big front line of Sheed, Ben & Dice ...SBD :P

    No doubt Dice deserves more PT and showed no ill effects from the Hornets game.... this could give us some much needed inside scoring.

    Dice or the Evas/Delfino?... let the experiment begin!
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's a great comparison.
     
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Can we get one of those inflatable Delfino dolls for TP22?
    Jess messin'... that is a good comparison...
    I'll give ya the rookie year thing.
     
  13. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    :laugh:

    Hey, I'm just saying. I have no bias towards a player just because of who they are. I say what I say because I think it would help the team.

    I think the comparison proves that Tayshaun wasn't exactly killing it out there in almost identical PT as Delfino is getting this year. It took a big boost in minutes for him to get his confidence going and look at what he has turned into. Before the minutes, he didnt do anything much better than Carlos is in the same minutes. That's why I think people are expecting too much from Carlos (offensively) considering the PT he has been given. The numbers were just way too similar for me to not post.
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Really interesting nums. Nice Job.

    Hey, we should be so lucky as to have a comparison round 8 thread going at this time next year since that means that the team will have already cleared 60 wins and is on the way to ship 3 - and we don't have anything else to talk about.
     
  15. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Evans comes into the NOK game, gets an impossible rebound, and then, half a second later, has the ball stolen from him by Chris Paul.

    Delfino enters the game, shakes a defender, skies for a one handed jam (unbelievable!) and is denied by the rim.

    I think both of these guys have skill and athletic ability, but neither seems like a savior off the bench. Maybe next year.
     
  16. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    You make a convincing argument. In my mind the debate is shelved until October.
     
  17. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    great numbers fp22.

    the thing that surprised me as i read them, actually, was that delfino's mpg are as high as that. my memory rarely has him in for more than 10 mpg, but with all the dnp-cd's and 5-7 min. games, he must have had quite a few 10 min+ games earlier in the year. I only remember a couple in any detail. ah well, it's been a while i guess, and plus i'm gettin' old.

    anyway, i really hope the guy gets a chance to break out cause i think he could be pretty special player and i like his style of ball and i hope it's with the pistons.
     

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