Detroit At Dallas - Nov 19, 2005

Discussion in 'November 2005 Games' started by max, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I know you can't win em all...BUT...this one was a real eye-opener regardless of the back-to-back and that they shot the lights out. The D was non-existent as was the O.

    Few boards, few steals, few assists...and no ball movement
     
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Scrubs vs Scrubs part II

    Well to quote myself, the bench puts up exactly 20 points in the fourth with J-Max leading the way with 7 points. With Dice struggling, Maxiel should be coming off the bench sooner. :eyebrows:

    Dice 0-5 shooting tonight and killing me every game in my fantasy shooting pct! (Got Kobe too and he has put up 70 shots in the last two games but at least he's giving me points):frusty:
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    No boards

    Pistons leading rebounder was Sheed with 5!

    That could be the lowest leading rebounder in Pistons history.
     
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    game report

    Gee, the first quarter was a disaster. Our shots are not falling, and everything Dallas put up in the first quarter went in. And if they missed, they got the rebound and still put it in. Is Ben hurting maybe. He certainly is not clearing the boards.

    Dyess continues to miss shots. Worse, he did not even take a wide open one, so his confidence is about gone. Except for the first minute, Arroyo played the whole 2ns quarter. We cut the lead down some, but we still are down 21 to start the 2nd half. Ain't looking too good at the moment for our win streak.

    Evans is just flat out the wrong guy to depend on as the main sub for Tay. In this game, he came in and was completely overmatched by Josh Howard. I still say put Amir Johnson in some. We got to develop this kid. Maxiell is another possibility.

    Darko missed a hook shot, but good to see him receive the ball in the post and get a decent shot attempt off at least. Man the rust is thick from this guy not playing for two years. He also missed an outside shot.

    Delfino hit a shot, looked ok on defense. None of the bench players stayed in all that long except for Arroyo. Although Evans and Dyess did come in early in the first. Which did not help at all. Again, Evans is too short, Dyess ain't hitting his shots.

    CB tried to take over the game when nobody else was hitting on their shots, but it was not there. Playing the 2nd of a back to back may be the problem. Man, they can still win this one. GO PISTONS!!!!!

    game report

    8-0. Still pretty good. Oh well, I guess we all knew the Pistons would not go 82-0. We debated about a bench player a lot today. And more debate about others, but our starters got kicked to the curb tonight. We made a start at a comeback in the 3rd quarter. We were a made triple from being just down 15 with still lots of time to go. Just not to be though.

    Our bench has problems. Evans is too short to play small forward. It will work against some teams, but any team with a taller small forward is going to have an advantage on us. Dyess is doing worse than ever. Worse yet, these are the first two guys the coach brought in off the bench. Not a lot of help.

    About the only bright spot tonight was some good shooting by Maxiell in garbage time. For the record, Maxiell has yet to play any minutes with the game still on the line. I say its about time to change that, both at small forward instead of Evans and at power forward instead of Dyess. At least some and see how it goes.

    Darko scored on a dunk and another time on a goal tended shot he got off driving in. Underhand scoop if I recall right. Davis got in the game for a few minutes at the end of the 3rd qaurter, start of the 4th. About it for tonight. Denver is next Wednesday night. GO PISTONS!!!!!
     
  5. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    This loss predictable

    Dallas was ready for us, period. If I bet pro-sports, it would have been an easy play. I am not worried about Dyss. I remember last year. At this time I told a friend that the guy can't hit a shot. He will be there as the season goes. Our bench in general and our back-up point is an issue. Lee may be right about Evans being small to back-up Tay. And we need to keep Tay's minutes in check. The bench still need more defined roles. I would like to see Delfino more. The problem with Darko is that you can't count on him for offense--he will need time. Don't worry. Denver lit us up last year about this time on the road.
     
  6. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    I note that Dampier (Dampier!) had as many rebounds as our entire starting five. Yikes! Our guys made him look pretty mighty tonight, and up until this point in the season, he's been underwhelming to say the least.

    I also note that as a team, we got outrebounded by 21 (47-26).

    Ugly. :P
     
  7. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I haven't agreed with you often in the past. I agree with you partially on this one. Dice is in a funk...I'd be willing to throw JMax in there with the starters to see what he can do. IMO, JMax has the potential to be Prince-like in his impact to the team at a young age, tho not in a starting role for a while. You're RIGHT...give him some time and see how it goes.

    Personally, I like what I've seen from MoE so far this season. He can hit shots, he boards, and he has ENERGY! Not a bad pickup for JoeD...as usual.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The second unit is lacking sorely in leadership. When Tay stays out with the second unit, he keeps deferring to everyone else when IMO he is the best player on the floor. Better than Arroyo, Delfino, Dice or Darko...
     
  9. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    -- Box Score

    The domination on the boards stands out. The fact that we got beat by 37 points and still had 2 more assists is interesting.

    Delfino 20 minutes, 4 points, zero other stats. Contrast that with Dice, Evans and Arroyo who were all able to at least have some impact out there besides shooting...

    Another very mediocore effort from Darko. 1 foul per 4 minutes, 1 rebound per 8 minutes. Totally shown up by J-Max in my opinion. Maxiell lead the bench in scoring with only 7 minutes in the second half.

    2 steals and 2 blocks is not Detroit basketball. It's not effort defense. I can take the loss, but not the lack of hustle or energy. The bench was very, very, very poor.
     
  11. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    IMO, that is TP's only weakness(?) to date...he is not a leader. He has a quiet demeanor and doesn't want the spotlight. He will play his ass off and do anything at either end to help the team, but doesn't want to be put at the helm. If he doesn't want to lead...that's okay with me. It would be nice if he took it on as a challenge, but I don't think it's in his nature...yet.

    The beautiful thing about this team is that there are no prima donnas...not even Sheed. CB is a leader, but not a PD.

    The Pistons DO need a second floor leader. So far, Arroyo ain't it. I'm not sure Lindsey will be up to the task when he returns, but not from lack of heart or floor intelligence.

    I was sorry to not see Acker get playing time last night. Tho not a pure PG, I'd like to see what he can offer in the leadership role. Last night was one of the probable few times this early season that he could have played that role.

    Acker & Johnson should have both had time last night.
     
  12. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    The aftermath

    I was mining for quotes in this morning's stories. Here's one from Sheed, which is great as always:

    The Pistons were impressed with Darko Milicic on Friday. In the second quarter, he got entangled with Dikembe Mutombo. Mutombo stuck a finger in Milicic's face. Milicic never backed off.
    He then went on to block two shots, one of them Mutombo's.
    "I'm telling you, Darko is a Serbian gangster," Rasheed Wallace said. "Darko's got some bodies back there (in Serbia-Montenegro). He can go psycho on guys."
     
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko is much more of a team player than jmax in my opinion. when jmax touches the ball it's going up no other player on the team is going to touch it. darko plays the team game a little bit too much i wish he would be like jmax sometimes and look to score everytime he touches it. but often darko runs the offense sets picks and looks for the nice pass to an open teammate.

    delfino played pretty good defense. the young athletic players of dallas weren't driving right past him like they were against the other piston players. i think dice is making a bid for being the 4th big off the bench. is dice "earning" his minutes??? it's time for jmax or darko to get a look at the 3rd big.
     
  14. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    woohoo an irregardless sighting!! :laugh:

    detteam, acker and johnson couldn't play last night - they are on the inactive list or whatever. by the way, for those that didn't get to watch the game, Maxiel had 3 clean blocks but was called for a foul on every one of them. The kid played absolutely fantastic - made an 18-footer, a turnaround jumper, and abused people on defense (just didn't get the benefit of the calls).

    mcdyess is still not getting the shots where he wants them and is forcing the shots anyway. arroyo was inconsistent as usual but didn't play that poorly. everyone's shot was off because they were trying to force it rather than run the offense, but that's what happens when you're down by 25. it also caused extra turnovers, like rip and sheed driving the lane, having nowhere to go, and passing it out *right* to a Dallas guy.

    i think you guys misjudge how the media is going to react to this - it's barely a blip on the ESPN page (and thankfully they all had college games to talk about :)).

    listen, shiz happens. indiana lost to charlotte by 33 and had trouble with them a couple nights ago. dallas shot 17/21 in the 1st quarter and ben was out for most of it...i mean what are you going to do? i watched most of the game and dallas made about 10 circus shots *while* getting fouled - they just couldn't miss. the bench got to play all of the 4th and it was really good experience for them, especially on the road for a fired up dallas crowd.

    on a sidenote, my buddy and i were at Hoop City Grille last night to cheer on his stepsister for the unveiling of the Automotion Swimsuit Calendar - and WOW the girls look great this year!! the calendar is much better than last year's, and it helped to erase the smell of last night's game.

    so the pistons lost, u of m lost, msu lost...a bad day for michigan sports, which can only mean...a LIONS VICTORY TODAY!! woohoo!! :P
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Darko's not aggressive enough period. I think he gets let off the hook with the "team game" stuff.

    Marquise Daniels took Delfino and whoever else guarded him to the hoop all game. I like Dallas and I like when he does it to other teams. I did not enjoy watching him do it last night.

    DMC & Playstation both need to start bringing their A-Game. Before I read anymore Dice for Darko nonsense, Darko needs to actually impact a game. Delfino too. If Dice and Arroyo are not going, DMC and Delfino need to start stepping up and playing like important pieces of this team.

    Plenty of blame to go around, but the young guys are showing very little, and they were supposed to be the backup plan.

    It's obvious to me that Dallas is much further ahead with their youth movement from Harris to Diop, Daniels to Howard than the Pistons are.
     
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko is very aggressive on the defensive end. he is a great pick and roll defender and a great shot blocker. he also sets great picks on the offensive end.

    he needs to be more aggressive on the boards and looking to score that's about it. these are coaching areas. i think he is deferring to mcdyess to score on the second unit.

    what impact is dice having on the game besides the impact of his bricks hitting the rim? darko and delfino need the minutes to have an impact on the game. delfino has played very good this season but still his minutes have been limited. dallas isn't much further ahead on thier youth movement they just have to put thier youth on the floor. our youth isn't even really into our rotation yet but they will be integrated soon and then we can better judge how they are.
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah, he's aggressive with blocks. He's not aggressive on the boards. Defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. Not trying to block every shot.

    I don't think coaching has anything to do with chasing boards or going hard to the hoop with the ball. That sounds a lot like an excuse.

    We'll see. I'm seriously doubting that our youth is as good as advertised. Delfino played 20 minutes and came up with 2-5 shooting for 4 points. Lindsey Hunter can do that.
     
  18. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I'm inclined to agree with Micro on the overrated youth on our team (production being the ultimite gauge)... however as you might expect a very green bench will play like a yo-yo... typically playing bad on the road and better when the crowd is behind them (let's track road vs home stats).
    We're gonna have to wait till near the 2nd half of the season to see which way the 2nd unit goes... we've been very fortunate so far to be able to let them get some on the job training and still get W's.

    IMO, They are hiding Acker's skills for next years contract when HUnter is gone.

    If it came down to a close game and you needed some scoring from the bench who would you put your money on ...Jmax or Dice?.. I'm not ready to give up on Antonio yet (besides I want his trade value to go up for next year)

    At this point Dallas has a better bench (possibly best in the association)... most of those guys have at least one year under their belts... I think we should just stay the course and monitor any improvement (or lack of) before making a move...

    Wonder if Joe will make a move before the deadline.
     
  19. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Feelings and things I have noticed

    In reading the various posts, I find that I agree with a lot of them but sometimes my feelings get in the way.

    I agree that the bench needs to score more but I also feel that the bench usually holds whatever lead they are given, and I think that even last night, when the bench was in there, they did not fall further behind.

    I really wish Darko would go into the games and look to score. I note that he is constantly passing quickly to a more open teammate but they do win games by points, not assists. He sees the floor pretty darned well because he does not hesitate at all in getting rid of the ball, like clear across court to Delfino who then made the open shot. But I still want him to look to score.

    I note also that when he is trying and actually blocking shots, it takes him out of position for the rebound. The ball virtually always comes down somewhere else than where he is because he is blocking the shot. I guess they better decide if they want the blocks or the boards.

    It may be my letting him off the hook, but it seems that quite a bit, he does work well to box someone out and has good rebound position and virtually always when he does, the ball goes into the basket. Seems like everytime he is open for the rebound, the basket is made.

    I still come down to the feeling after DMC plays that I am disappointed that he did not look to score more. I am not sure whether his two buckets last night in Dallas were good looking shots because I was busy trying to reformat my hard drive on this %&*%#M*&<% computer to watch the game as well as I needed to. Also, it was only two shots in what, 15 minutes? Can't see them all. I wish he would do something to rid me of this vaguely disappointed feeling when he plays during the earlier parts of the game.
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    in your opinion defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. but when darko is in the game he alters the game. people have to think twice about coming to the hole against him. he alters lots of shots and blocks lots too. don't underestimate the value of a shot blocker down there. yes rebounds are important but darko creates lots of rebounds for his team just by shot alterations. in my opinion sheed isn't exactly a good rebounder does that mean he isn't a good defender?

    coaching has a lot to do with the way darko plays on the offensive end. if flip called the plays and called darko's number every time and told him he was the # 1 option to score when he's in the game darko would look for his shot. what is sheed's excuse for not going hard to the hole?? i bring up sheed often because lots of the things dmc is talked about for sheed shares the same weakness in his game but noone speaks on it.

    delfino also rebounds and throws assists making his teammates better something lindsey doesn't do. delfino is shooting a high percentage and is unselfish so he isn't just jacking up shots to get the numbers. he's been much better on defense this year too. he's great in the passing lanes.

    evans is shooting a good percentage from 3. he's rebounding and providing energy. i haven't seen the lockdown defense just yet.

    darko is a shot blocker and a great pick and roll and post defender. he's more than held his own against some of the best bigs in the league. bigs that were dogging ben didn't get the same shots against darko. just needs to work on rebounding. darko has also raised his shooting percentage. he just needs to start believing he is the go to guy in the 2nd unit.

    arroyo has brought his shooting touch with him this year. the guy is a scorer and he makes great passes to people in scoring position. he makes his teammates better. he's also worked on his defense and he's another energy guy. he just needs to work on getting rid of the ball sooner.

    jmax is the sleeper of the bunch. although he won't pass to save his life when he does shoot it goes in. he also is aggressive on the rebounds and defensively.

    dallas has one of the best benchs in basketball. it's not fair to compare ours to them. lots of thier bench players had time as a starter and played heavy minutes. our bench players haven't exactly had that luxury. being developed on a piston bench is one of the hardest things in basketball.
     

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