Discussion in 'January 2006 Games' started by roscoe36, Jan 10, 2006.
Ur right, me bruddah!! No teams fears me this year, except a healthy Phoenix team-maybe
Kpaav, I will look for your analysis on the extra screen on the tape. If we can indeed get Rip open consistently against SA, then much of our offensive problems with them in the past will go away. To me the key over last year is that they don't know where we will go on offense. Last year, we obliged them by trying to pound it down low. That defense is geared for that. Now,they can not focus in on what we will do. We ran the break and took the open look. We passed. We let Sheed have so many touches. Their bigs are not that mobile. They don't want to stray from the basket as it messes up their defensive sheme. Sheed drifting out puts a big strain on that defense. We played Detroit baskeball defensively last night. But it wasn't enough last year without the offense. Our offense is getting good, really good. We have always had the players just not a superstar. But look at our range with Billips and Sheed and even Rip. The bench wasn't the story at all. The first quarter was. We absolutely dominated them. I was stunned. What a great time to be a Piston fan.
That's the problem, he's clearly being outplayed, but keeps his minutes. In the scheme of things does it affect the pistons season? No. Does it cost us any games? Maybe a loss or 2. Are us Evans haters overreacting, probably. But it is frustrating to watching, kinda like nails on the black board.
I don't really mind evans' play. He has high energy and keeps a lot of balls alive on the offensive boards.
He would be best in a fast breaking game.
Delfino is not really lighting the world on fire when he is in there either.
he has not been in enough to find a rythem. here is a qoute from chauncey in todays detnews
"I personally wanted to get Rasheed going early," said Chauncey Billups, who had 14 assists. "When our big guys get going and they are scoring in the paint, we are difficult to play."
Wallace hit 12 of 20 shots, mostly playing in the paint. He made 3 of 5 three-pointers.
"He is one of the great ones," Billups said. "The great ones make it easier for everybody else. When he's rolling, everybody gets easy shots. They are set to stop me and Rip (Richard Hamilton). When Rasheed gets going, they have to shift their whole focus."
when is the last time someone got delfino "going" to me imo it seems as if they will try and get dyess involved in the flow but the rest of the guys have to "create for themselves" or just make hustle plays to get the ball. if you want better production from your bench try running plays for guys so they can get "going"
Re: game report
Maybe Acker can become a mini-Sheed:
"I got the feeling I would dress as soon as I saw Carlos (Arroyo ) head butt the ref," Acker said. "I knew it was just a matter of time."
review of game
In my opinion, Ginobili intentionally struck Rip across the face. He did swipe at the ball, but it seemed to me he then changed directions in his down swing to catch Rip real hard. This kind of goes along with Horry flat out throwing Rip onto the floor. SA fans out there, please let the SA team know this type of dirty play degrades your team and the sport of basketball. Clean up your act.
Concerning Evans play in the 2nd half. We did get an assist out of a time out, when Evans first came into the game. And we got an assist immediately out of the end of quarter break. But other than that, we did not even smell an assist while Evans was in the game. We only scored one time in the first 6 minutes of the 4th quarter, and that was again, rigth out of the end of quarter break. This is not to slam Evans. Detroit was using that time to try to get Evans involved in our offense. Maybe he is a slow learner. Whatever, but that was what was going on. In the first half, we managed to get assists while Evans was in the game, by completely leaving Evans out of the plays.
Probably the most impressive play of the game was when Tay got the rebound, dribbled all the way down, thru traffic, and layed it in using all that length. I guess the 12 rebounds was a career high for Tay.
Delfino was fouled by Duncan on that drive. It looked clean around the ball, but Duncan shoved Delfino in his side or that would have been two points for us, and a spectacular play by Delfino. Instead, we got yet another blown call by the officials and Flip took Delfino out of the game after that.
That 2 from the corner off the feed from Dyess after an offensive rebound was a high archer. Looked good. Delfino's one longer range try missed well long. It was from a foot or two inside the line. Note, thats one shot such shot for the game, about all Delfino ever gets. Sure would like to see him get a chance to heat up in a game.
In one sequence, it seemed we got about 5 offensive rebounds. But could not score. Evans got one of those. I guess my question is, what good is getting the rebound if you can't score. Well, if you are way up in the score, it certainly kills a lot of clock. That fourth quarter started with both Evans and Ben Wallace on the floor. Maybe this is a bad combo. One guy who can't handle the ball, and so you would not want to pass to. And one guy who can't shoot the ball, Ben, who again, you really don't want to pass the ball to. Kind of limits the options in an offensive set.
No, I did not count Rip's picks. Probably next time thru. One of Sheed's threes was from a few feet back of the line.
CB did take a lot of shots. Shots he can make, but yes, a little forced too. Here is what I got to say about that. Same as always pretty much. CB is a scorer. To some extent, a shooter. Shooters shoot. It is what keeps their shot healthy. Someday, some defense is going to really tighten up on us, and Billups is going to have take those very same shots. So keep on shooting CB. As long as it is within reason, keep on honing that great weopon you have, your outside shot. All shooters have bad games. But they keep on shooting. Maybe you say Billups is not that great a shooter, and so this does not apply to him. But who is to say Billups can't become that kind of great shooter if he keeps practicing to become one.
Evans in this game
In my review of the game, I did not look at Evans defense too closely. Still no sign though that he is capable of guarding anyone adequately. We had him in there against Parker, VanExcel, and Ginobili as they were going small, and Evans for sure can't guard any if them.
As Evans again took no threes, it has been about 6 games now since he made a three.
Early on in the season, we were all quite intrigued by Evans. He was nailing triples, getting some steals, offensive rebounds. And he had a rep as a good defender.
Since then, the triples have seemingly dried up. The defense turned out to be hype. Steals? Mostly from someone else knocking the ball away and Evans picking the ball up. Very few knock-a-ways by Evans himself. And meanwhile, we have fully realized that Evans is absolutely not a guard, as he has precious little ball handling skill.
Whats left is offensive rebounding, and that is the only thing we saw good from Evans in this game. I would welcome anyone else's comments on what they saw from Evans in this game. Specifically, what agreement or disagreement about his defense, ball handling and shots (did he pass up some he should have taken-did he get in position-was the other team guarding him-any observations from this game.
Re: review of game
And this is different from what Laimbeer and Mahorn did how?
I know folks don't like Ginobili. He's like Sheed, Claude Lemieux, Rodney Harrison. You hate him if you play him, you love him if he is on your team.
I don't mind the Spurs roughing up the Pistons as long as no one gets hurt. What I don't like is that no one plants Tony Parker on his keister when he drives the lane.
Sorry, but as a Badboys era fan, it would be entirely hypocritical of me to condemn Ginobili for fighting when his team had given up, and playing physical/hard/dirty. Nothing he did was worthy of a flagrant foul.
Personally, I'd love to see Manu and his flopping, crazy passing, big play-making in a Detroit uniform.
Re: review of game
the fact that Manu plays the way doesn't bother me at all, the fact that the refs called the game the way they did does. Twice? CB got called offensive pushoffs that were huge flops by parker and not one time did we seem to get the benefit of the call. 2 Ft's with what 2 mins to go last night? If detroit got the benefit of the calls that wade parker and Manu are getting against us... NOBODY would ever come close to beating us.
Refs..... please call it both ways, and let the players decide it. That makes last nights victory look even better. There were a few looks, and comments after the game, but I think we are learning to play thru bad calls... is that experience or another Coaching item that we should be giving credit to the new guy for?
There is a reason why some teams are so hard to beat on their court. And its not "getting the crowd involved". If anything the refs are influenced by the crowd.
That was the best Piston win of the season. We did it without Arroyo. Last game some said yea but Ginobili was out. This game Ginobili played, looked good and the Pistons had to play without a backup point for the 1st time this season. Prince slidding over to the point with Evans and Delfino having to fill in.
Actually I thought the big offensive draught we had early in the 4th was due to things just being out of balance with the rotations that had not been played before. Team toughen down on the D, crashed the boards and got the job done.
How weird is it that the Pistons two best defensive and rebounding efforts come against what is widely considered the best or second best team in the NBA?
We get our butts handed to us by Utah in 4th quarters, and then go out and own the Spurs on their court or ours.
When the Pistons play with discipline and focus, they can't be beat. The trick is having that energy and effort each night.
San Antonio is better than they have played. I'm still anxious to see a Pistons-Spurs/Suns/Mavs final.
We definately haven't seen the best from the Spurs yet. I think they've still got a bit of the Championship hangover.
Manu is healthy again, but is playing off the bench right now and Finley and Nick the Not So Quick Anymore are still finding their rolls on this team.
They have a scary record for a team that has yet to hit high gear.
I think both teams are better than they were last year. The Spurs and Pistons are BY FAR the best 2 teams in the NBA. It should be one hell of a battle!
How about 6 seconds. Apparently, the league has extended Shaq privileges to the big men on SA. Nesterovic, twice, got to stay in the lane 5 to 6 seconds, camping out. And it hurt us twice. This was early in the game. And also early in the game, Duncan got nearly 5 seconds in the lane, and again, to our detriment. Without this craziness, SA does not score but maybe 1 point in the opening minutes of the game. This game absolutely should not even have been as close as it was.
Does anyone know how often the Pistons get away with 3 seconds in the lane. Personally, I ain't noticed an instance of it. Far as I can tell, they give us 2 and a 1/2 seconds. What gives here?
I wanted to highlight the differences in offensive philosophy from this year and last. 1st quarter, Ben screens for Tay in the corner who hits a jumper. Last year, we try and post Tay or drop the ball in to Ben. SA loved that. Sheed, after taking Duncan down low, becomes a passer in the high post. Rip does a one man break for a layup. Chauncey who did force up a lot of shots later and tried to drive into the teeth of the defense (shades of last year) took and hit a three in that first quarter blitz. Last year, he usually did not take the long look early. What this does to the SA defense is that they can not rely on our habits to defend us. Further, their defense is geared to sag in and it weakens them to spread it out. I actually think we get more mileage with Sheed outside on this team. Teams now know that the Pistons can score like every other team in the league. In fact, we are one of the better offenses in the league. They also know, that we can lock down. Look what we did to SA. 68 points. We killed them on the boards. We can't do this every game but for key games and the playoffs we can. As Magic said, our offensive tempo is now geared to our talent level.
We did get some play from the bench. Delfino hit a shot. Dyss of course. Arroyo is better than Tay running the offense. Evans made a major, major play in that first quarter rebound and put back. The score was just 18-13. Lee, if you ride this guy, ride him, but that was one of the highlights of the 1st quarter. You have got to report that--we don't always get to see every game. On Delfino, a drawback is that he is only 23 and still lacking in experience. But the bench wasn't the story in this game. Our first quarter- plus blitz was and then our relentless defense in the second half. SA has to be thinking, we never were able to score on them much and now we can't count on stopping them or as Pop says, "We have to play a near perfect game to beat them." SA will be better later but I am now more worried about Shaq-Wade as we don't always stop that duo.
Evans putback was indeed in my report.
I write a ton about the starters too. Nobody makes much comment about that. They just concentrate on what they don't like. How much of a story is it that Sheed is going into the post a lot more this year, or that he is doing great on his threes? That story I have told over and over in my reports. Or that Tay continues to work on and stay aggressive on his offense. He continues to try to establish his outside shot, making them come out to guard him so he can blow by them to the basket. How much of a story is Ben Wallace pulling down 20 rebounds. Nothing new. Or blocking Paul 4 times in the N.O. game? Old. Rip coming off screens? He does it game after game. Rip going inside more. Rip hitting triples well. CB hitting triples well. CB going to the line all day in so many games. You can only tell the same story so many times.
You say the bench is not a story? With our "bench" in, to start the 4th quarter, we went 1-10. Rip hit a shot to begin the quarter, and then we not only did not get a bucket the next 5 minutes, we did not even score a point. Don't you think that is a story? Don't you think people would want to know how that happened? After all, we only had 2 bench players in the game. CB was still running the point. Either Rip or Tay were in the game. Either Ben or Sheed was in. So how come we stalled? That is a story.
And now, contrast that opening of the 4th to the opening of the 2nd quarter. No Carlos Arroyo. CB sitting on the bench getting some rest. Quite a story. Did we falter. Crash and burn. Nope. We ran the lead from 13 points up to 20 points. How did that happen? Here, again, we had 3 starters and 2 bench players. Who ran the offense in the absence of Arroyo? This is a story, pertinent to this game.
By the way, Prince brought the ball up for us, but Delfino was also quite involved in our ball handling in those opening minutes of the 2nd quarter. Tay passed the ball for instance, and Delfino drove toward the top of the lane, drawing 2 defenders, kicked out to Dyess for an assist. And a couple more times Delfino handling the ball led to us scoring.
To open the 4th quarter, in contrast, it was Evans getting a few shots at handling the ball. Each time, he simply lost some time on the clock and passed the ball off, not giving us a thing for the time the ball was in his hands.
We are talking about quite a hunk of the game time. Stuff not hardly ordinary, run of the mill stuff about the Pistons. Stuff that is different. New.
And what happened after Delfino sat for Evans? SA scored every time down, and the last two times it was on Evans. Evans came out of the game and we righted the ship, so to speak. You call it riding Evans. I call it reporting to people who might want to know what happened in the game.
Specifically, Nick the Quick shook Evans off real easy and hit a jumper. Next time down, he shook off Evans easily and got right in the paint. Sheed had to challenge him, leaving Duncan open for a dunk. That is what happened right before his coach took Evans out of the game.
We did have two periods in the game where we scored, and gained some lead, with Evans in. In both the 1st and 3rd quarters, Evans was in while we pushed the lead up. None of this was really Evans though. He did get the one offensive rebound putback, and thats it really. His other rebounds did not lead to us scoring. Other players on the team did some good stuff on offense, like nail threes, hit their teammates for good assists. With Evans out of the way. On defense, Evans was ineffective on anyone he gaurded.
If you disagree with what I am writing, you tell me just where. Can you tell me the player Evans guarded well. Can you point out where Evans made a good pass that led to scoring for us? Any positives you want to add about Evans, go ahead. I am listening. I plan to watch the game a couple of more times yet and I will be sure to look for whatever you mention.
Its pure comedy they called that an offensive foul on CB. Parker never got position at all. Indeed, his body was turned sideways as he approached CB, who really did not touch the guy. Parker just basically threw himself on the floor, and got the benefit of the whistle for it. Worse, the announcers applauded Parker for how great he did getting into position. They even said CB lowered his shoulder, which he did not. he was going in with a low stance, but never changed a thing at the time of the imaginary collision. Just a horrid call with the media blindly (we hope blindly) cheering it on.
Re: Parker flopping
I watched that 3 times; their feet weren't set.
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