Detroit FREEP Loves Celtics - Doesn't Think Much Of Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Buddha, I don't think age is worth anything on the scoreboard.

    You can't credit the Wiz playing together when the Celts have not had the same opportunity.

    Personally, I think Songaila was a disappointment, same with their bigs, Haywood and Rasta Poet. And Stevenson had some good games, but for the most part, was barely more valuable than pocket lint.

    Sorry but the Wiz totally do not impress me.
     
  2. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    If you call averaging a combined 29 points a game pocket lint, then so be it. Our 5 - 8 guys averaged about 31 points a game which would then pocket lint plus a two point goal.

    Washington Wizards - Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Detroit Pistons - Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    :hoops:
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm saying that Stevenson is not all that and a bag of chips.

    You do realize that he averaged 6 points in 31 minutes during the playoffs? Lindsey Hunter can do that without Xenical.
     
  4. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I never look at individual numbers during the playoffs in any sport, except over a several year period, which would establish a large enough universe of games to matter. In a specific year I only look at the teams' records.

    The reason is that in short series depending on match ups, playing with injury, along with the nature of basketball being more defensive orientated in the playoffs players numbers get easily distorted.

    Also in a short series like the playoffs, a player can get hot or cold.

    Remember Bucky Dent?

    A career .247 hitter with 423 RBIs in 1392 games.

    Yet in the 1978 World Series he hit .417 with 7 RBIs in 6 games and was named MVP.

    Off of that performance you could say that he belongs in the HOF. LOL

    Another example is Danny Manning. Until this year he had never won a Super Bowl and got a lot of grief because of it, with people saying that he could not win the big dance.

    Well, if you look at the Colts playoff record the last few years prior to this year, one thing that stands out is that they were eliminated at least twice by New England in night games in Foxboro outside in the dead of winter. Not exactly the type of weather conducive to a passing game. If I remember correctly, New England also, went on to win the Super Bowl in each of those years.

    This year the Colts got New England at home during playoffs in doors and whipped their butts.

    In addition during the playoffs defense becomes more important in football, just like basketball. even more so. The Colts defense came through this year and that is the reason that they won, but you don't give MVP trophies to a defensive unit, though that might not be a bad idea, so this year Manning got the MVP.

    A lot of people consider playoff performance as a test of a player being able to perform under pressure. My opinion is that it is only relevant if there is enough history there to make the numbers meaningful, like with C-Webb.

    For a basketball player I would say you need at least 20 - 25 games minimum spread over two to three years, based on the reasons I stated above, to come to any conclusion about their playoff performance and even then you have to look at matchups among other things.

    A perfect example of that is Afflalo in the NCAA tournament the last two years, where he was pretty well shut down by C. Brewer the first year and C. Brewer and the officials this last year (with his early foul trouble on horrible calls. We all know about that stuff now!!). Brewer is 6'8" and long and the Bruins had no front line, so that in addition to Brewer he was often double teamed.

    It is not often that Afflalo as a Piston, is going to be guarded by 6"8" guys that play long along with being double teamed, except on trap plays with a pressure defense. This however is not the normal 48 minute defense that teams use even in the playoffs, but only in special situations, but certainly not for the whole game.

    There are only a few off guards in the NBA that are 6'8" and long, so to judge Afflalo's game based upon his performance against Florida in the NCAA tournament these last two years, in my opinion, is to judge based on the exception and not the rule, which I don't agree with.

    Most people will disagree with me on this one and I understand that because they don't view playoff performance the same way as I do.

    1978 World Series by Baseball Almanac

    Bucky Dent Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com


    :hoops:
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, how about,

    I have seen DeShawn Stevenson play, and he is a poor man's Flip Murray.
     
  6. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Danny Manning still hasn't won a Super Bowl. :)
     
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    All those knee problems held him back.
     
  8. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He'll never get one :MusicBigGrin:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    If KG, Allen, and Pierce did this individually than they will be more dangerous now. I don't get your point Buddah. Pierce did all this production with no one else, which means that the defense was always worried about him. Same goes with Allen and KG. Now that all three are together they can't concentrate on one guy because than the other two will burn them.

    Gilbert Arenas is not much better than Ray Allen. Arenas is a very good shooter, but Ray Allen might be the best. Arenas can handle the ball and pass it better, but he tries to score more than trying to pass.

    Caron Butler and Pierce are both good defenders, but Pierce is a way better offensive player.

    Antawn Jamison only beats out KG in three pointers, but if we were looking at that Kapono would be better than KG. That is not the case though. KG beats out Jamison in everything else (boards, defense, inside scoring, passing, and dribbling)
     
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Rondo can get inside through penetration. He will help the Celtics a lot even though he is far away from being the best on that team. The same cannot be said about Stevenson.

    Perkins is also better than Songaila, and he is just as good as Etan Thomas and Haywood.

    After this both the Wizards and the Celtics are thin on their rosters. Check it out yourself.

    Celtics Roster | Celtics.com

    WIZARDS: 2007 Wizards Playoffs Statistics
     
  11. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Fair enough

    But that still makes him better than any guard the Celtics have except for Allen.

    :hoops:
     
  12. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Good catch LOL

    Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Danny Manning, Archie Manning.

    :hoops:
     
  13. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Ray Allen can't play defense. The Celtics will have no perimeter defense. You can't have good defense as a team if your guards can't defend unless you have have a front line of Bill Russell, Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman or the equivalent, which the Celtics don't have.

    When the Bulls had their greatest teams they had Jordan and Harper at the guards, two of the best defensive guards at the time.

    The Bad Boys had Zeke and Joe D. excellent defenders.

    Showtime had Magic and Scott and Cooper, all excellent defenders, especially Cooper, who wasn't called "The Secretary of Defense" without good reason.

    The Spurs have Parker and Ginobili both better than average defenders.

    When the Celtics won in the 80's they had DJ and Ainge. Excellent defensive guards.

    Defense is played firstly with the legs, these three Celtics will be getting so many minutes, that they will either have heavy legs come next March or April or more likely get injured.

    A high percentage of injuries occur when an athlete continues to compete when their body is worn out from excessive play without sufficient rest, especially older athletes.

    So Ainge is between a rock and a hard place. The bar has been raised by the media and the public. Without any depth, the Celtics will need all three on the court an awfully lot in order to come close to the expectations that are now in place. Ainge will be forced to play them and play them way too many minutes. At least one of them will break down before the year is over and the Celtics will be finished.

    Even if the Celtics big three can play together on offense, and I am not convinced that they can, I still won't like their chances this coming year.

    What is indisputable is:

    1. The Celtics have no bench. In fact they have no one of solid proven NBA ability beyond those three.

    2. The big three's average age will be 31 + at the beginning of this season.

    3. As the Celtic roster stands now they will have no perimeter defense.


    If the Celtics had a solid bench so that their big three didn't have to play so many minutes for them to win and their big three didn't average 31 years of age and the Celtics had above average perimeter defense than I would agree with the current opinion of their chances this coming year.

    But they don't have so I don't.

    :hoops:
     
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It'll be interesting to watch the team dynamics and chemistry of the Celtics over the next couple of years. You'll have 3 guys making about $20 million each and the remaining 9-12 guys will be making about $1-$2 million a piece. The bench and team depth will certainly be the huge question marks for this team.
     
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Way to change the stakes there pal.

    Not happening. Roscoe's statement was lock for the playoffs and second round. Take it or leave it.

    You have much to learn my young padawan.
     
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can we get him for the Lions! He's gotta be hungry.
     
  17. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    You are incorrect.

    I made the original offer of a wager. I laid the stakes. Go back and read my posts. I never agreed to any counter offers.

    :hoops:
     
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Your words, not mine, friend....read 'em and weep.

     
  19. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    That was his offer, which I never accepted, not mine. That was a counter offer to my offer.

    :hoops:
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It was never an offer or a solicitation of a wager. I merely posted how i thought Boston would do, as any casual internet fan is wont to do.
     

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