Detroit vs. New York - Fri. Dec 2nd 2005

Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by roscoe36, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    How about for Mike James and Jalen Rose??
  2. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Are you Darko's agent? The guy sucked last night and was one of the causes of a big Knick run. It is outterly embrassing to see this guy cowarding away from Channing Frye as he tried to posterize him. Darko is bigger and stronger and he looked like a wet noodle.
    Your reasoning about Darko getting consistent minutes is flawed do to the fact that in the pro game players are inserted into the line up based on match ups.Some guys get more minutes and some get less depending on the skill level of the other team especially if you are a bench player. Why would you put Darko in the game to get schooled and embrassed? Darko does not run the team so he does not get to choose when he plays or how long he plays. He is a player so he should come to play when ever his number is called whether it is garbage time or not. The guy needs to be shipped out of town to an expansion club or a losing team that can let him play 40 mins a game so he can develop. We are doing him a diservice keeping him and the longer we do the less value we are going to get for him.
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    i could tell very much that darko would of done a lot better if lb wasn't on the sidelines. couldn't anyone else teall that? normally he'd be all over trying to block shots, set picks. and we saw in the preseason he's good at free-throws, and he missed them badly last night plus he missed an esy tip in. one thing good i saw was that dice hit 2 very confident jumpers in the second half. very good sign he just might lead this bench to start doing better.
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    game report

    12-2. Larry Brown's team goes to 5-10. Sounds good to me.

    Rip was fantastic plus. Last game, with 30 scored, he was fantastic. 40 is just indesribably good. And two games like this in a row. Wow. Hit another 3. Made about 12 of 13 at the line. Coming off his screens and hitting. Wow and double wow. Best of all he had 30 going into the 4th quarter and get 10 more when it really counts.

    Tay had an impressive double double, with 19 points and 10 rebounds. I had just noted today (in a different forum) that Tay's rebounding was down 25% so far this year. Hope this is a trend.

    CB had 11 assists, and 11 points. I think I heard Blaha say that both he and and another player had this same stat (Marbury I guess.) Fitting as they enshrined Zeke on the Palace floor.

    Ben stepped up and hit 2 for 2 at the stripe, right after Sheed had missed both of his to cap off a pretty much nothing performance from him tonight. Ben got fouled going for the rebound. Ben even hit a jumper.

    Our bench did great, as long as Evans was not in the game. With Evans in the game, we were minus 15. Without Evans, Arroyo and Dyess were in there early in the 3rd pretty much putting this game away. But Evans came back into the game to start the 4th. And our defensive rotations completely stopped. The flow of our offense completely stopped. Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Mo is now minus 28 in the last two games combined, while the bench is otherwise heavily plus, about a point a minute in fact.

    Arroyo hit a couple of outside shots and impressively finished a drive in with a reverse layup. And this is against there bigs, challenging them to stop him. And note, we only gave NY 8 points the whole 3rd quarter. With Arroyo and Dyess in, our defense held just fine.

    Darko did not do much. Got beat by a couple of their bigs. Mistimed a tap in just a bit. Almost got another tap in to go, but missed that too. And missed his free throws. But at least he was there at the basket you notice. Give him time. And no, don't try to blame Evan's bad numbers on Darko. Evans was negative more without Darko than with Darko. Sorry Evans fans, thats the facts. Despite Evans nailing that triple, and getting an offensive rebound putback, he had a very poor game tonight.

    Dyess hit a couple more shots, and once drove in and found Ben for an easy two points. Good job Dyess. Dale Davis got in the game briefly, did not do much of anything really.

    With our current rebounding problems going on, I am more in favor of using Maxiell at backup small forward than ever. Yes, Ben is still probably hurting some from the other night, but it ain't all him. We are giving up way too many offensive rebounds and not getting enough ourselves.

    No Delfino again tonight. I am still going to stick with my theory that Flip is giving Evans every chance to improve his defensive rotations and ball handling. But man would I rather have seen Delfino tonight vs. Evans.

    One more thought. About NBA experience vs. practice. As far as I know, neither Channing Frye nor Jerome James are invited to our practices so that Darko can get practice guarding these guys. Thats why he needs to play. I am not worried at all that these guys each scored on Darko the one time each. Give Darko more of that. He needs the experience.
    </B></B>
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    OMG...Come on, man. You sound like the guy who blamed Larry Brown for Darko having a bad game in Europe this summer. At some point people need to look at what Darko is doing and hold him responsible for what he does rather than blaming others.

    Darko does well in practice too. But when 20,000 people watch him he looks lost and is usually an embarrassment. It wasn't Larry per se...it is the fact that this kid cannot seem to play when any type of real crowd watches him. That's part of being a pro. Darko ain't cutting it.

    Time to cut their losses, if possible, IMO.
  6. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee356

    In your post, when discussing Darko, all you talk about is "he ALMOST did this...he ALMOST did that". You sure cut him lots of slack. You say he didn't do much...that is a vast understatement...He did TERRIBLE.

    I guess using that type of reasoning we can say Hunter almost scored 20 points per game against the Spurs last summer. He sure took lots of shots that ALMOST went in...just barely catching the outside of the rim. Just practice is all he needs. Just practice.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Evans happened

    To be exact, we got up 19 early in the 4th, with the same group of players who finished the 3rd. (Arroyo, Rip, Tay, Dyess, Ben.) At that point, Evans came into the game and all our momentum stopped cold. People can have what ever opinion they want concerning if this was any fault of Evans. Just keep track though. For this game, our bench had three clear periods they played. 1) With Evans doing very badly. 2)No Evans and doing great 3)With Evans again and doing very badly. This pattern has held the last two games big time. Lets see if it continues, and I will continue to give my theories of what the problem is.
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    just reread my post and i see that it sounds like that, but what i really meant is that darko was a little bit shaky out there because lb was there. i'm not blaming it on larry. let's see if he does good against the bulls today.
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    It was discouraging to Darko supporters like me to see Davis come in for the few minutes he did. It's becoming a trend. Darko gets 5. Davis gets in the rest of the game. Is flip trying to show darko that you CAN get up off the bench and play even if its just a short time. :confused:



    Put in Delfino flip!
  10. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    evans?

    I only was able to listen to the game but I thought it was the TO's that carlos then Chancey made that swung the momentum.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    We would need to come up with a lot of salary to send back.

    Rose + James is close to 18 million I think. You ain't getting those guys for Dos Los.
  12. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    lee

    In the 4th we were up by 14 when we pulled mo and we let that lead slip away if you don’t believe me here is a recap of play by play scroll down to the 4th and at 8:13 Evans is replaced by Hamilton. http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html


    Starting with 3:44 in the 1st mo came in with the score 19-16 helped extend the lead up to 23-18 and at 1:52 sheed turned the ball over then fouled and Dyess came in played tight through the rest but were down 28-26. At the start of the 2nd we had ca rip mo Dyess and Darko on the court and half way through they started to put starters back in with the score 44-37 Knicks mo had 7 points when he came out of the game so you cant say the lack of production was on him we had our whole bench out on the court except for rip.
    Mo is just becomeing a victim in your posts as of late the 4th melt down had less to do with mo and more to do with larry then anything he had an ok night going 3-4 from the feild 1 board 1 steal 1 assist and 2 blocks 7 points

    So lets just say your recap is not as thorough as it could have been about mo's pt. you can not pin the 4th on him as he was on the bech when the magority of that lead was cut down to nothing
  13. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    I'm finally giving up on Darko.

    He'll be motivated against LB. He'd have done better if LB wasn't there. He needs playing time. He needs meaningful playing time. He needs meaningful playing time early. He needs time with the starters.

    Too many planets have to line up for this guy to have a decent game. Way too many.

    There are a lot of things I won't blame him for, notably the inability or unwillingness of the reserves to get him some low post touches. But after a while you just get tired of noticing that other rookies and scrubs can contribute while he's floundering out there. Real talent is obvious, even inescapable. It bursts out at the seams and shows itself. But Darko's flashes aren't getting brighter, and they aren't getting more frequent. Maybe in a town like Atlanta or Oklahoma City he'd get what he needs, but it just ain't happening here.

    It reminds me of nothing so much as that old Warner Brothers cartoon where the guy finds a dancing frog who can sing, dance and do everything ... only to go broke when he flops as the curtain goes up.
  14. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    that's totally ridiculous...were you even watching the game? we had 3 straight turnovers that gave NY confidence and energy to try and make it a game, none of which were from evans.

    you're so biased against the guy, when he didn't even play poorly yesterday. in 12 minutes he had 7 points on 3/4 shooting (including 1/1 from 3-point range), a rebound, assist, steal, and 2 blocks. one of his baskets he broke away from the defender for a wide open dunk.

    maybe our bench wasn't *spectacular* yesterday but they shot 8-for-11...
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I gotcha. You were just making an "observation" and not a "commentary".

    Still, it is a glaring weakness in Darko's makeup that he cannot play with particular people coaching OR watching him, or a certain amount of people observing. Some very good players choke when they get to the playoffs. Darko can't even perform in (relatively meaningless) early regular season games. I cannot imagine this guy ever being a clutch performer. He does NOT have Piston DNA, IMO.

    " Hello my baby, Hello my darling..." That's the song. Loved that cartoon.

    I agree with you man, on all the Darko stuff. The planets aligning and all that. I'm done with him. Come to think of it, I dunno why I stuck with him this long. I finally got to see him for myself, yesterday and he is a JOKE!

    Evans doesn't get the benefit of "almosts" as Darko does. If Darko had played as well as Evans we would never hear the end of it from Lee and a couple others.
  16. Pastor Flournoy

    Pastor Flournoy First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree he doesn't have Pistons DNA; he has "hawks" Dna. So let’s ship him and CD for Smith and Childress. Smith is explosive and Childress has Long TP type arms and could become a great defender. However, I must say...... I have some hope left for CD. Its time to work DD into the mix as our fourth big, and give JM a bone in the late second quarter. I listened to game online, and when they said Darko was flat footed and didn't even jump when the Knicks player grabbed a board I jumped off the Darko truck for the last time. The proposed trade would still keep our money free for Ben and CB.
  17. Pastor Flournoy

    Pastor Flournoy First Round Draft Pick

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    If we had to get Spree which I would be very leery of.....How about we call the Hawks tell them to sign him for around 3.5 and we trade Darko for him? Would that work or would we need to wait for long deadlines? Anybody know?
  18. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    If possible I'd prefer an unprotected 1st rounder within the next two or three years, period. Unjam the roster a little and maybe give Johnson or Acker a little PT.
  19. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    Lee, man you are trippin'.....again. lol!

    Mo Evans did okay last night. The point guards tried to throw the game away in the 4th quarter. That pretty much sums up the collapse.
  20. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Lee-Evans

    I agree that Evans has been off and on and I'm still trying to decide what I think of him (I think what I believe is that he's an adequate backup SG to spell Rip for 12-14 minutes per game), but last night was very definitely not his fault. It was primarily the PGs (10 TO's between them) that led to the run. He happened to be on the floor, but that wasn't his fault.

    Arroyo and McDyess overall looked a bit better. They're certainly better off playing with some starters on the floor than throwing them out there with Evans and Darko all at once.

    And Lee, I'm losing patience with Darko. You jump on Evans' case about everything but always let Darko by with just about anything. I've been very open-minded about letting him have a shot and was disappointed with LB's seeming inability to get him on the floor. But the point is that he contributes virtually nothing while he's out there. He has talent, no question about it. But I watched a less-talented player (Frye) last night totally outplay him after EARNING a spot in LB's rotation. Yes, he has college ball under his belt, but he also has a fire in him I haven't seen from Darko. Darko looks tentative and afraid every time he gets on the floor. That was understandable under LB, who got on him for breathing, but not under Flip, whose more laid-back style should be much more conducive to Darko's development.

    Because of our situation (three, perhaps four bigs who are more NBA-ready than Darko) it has been necessary to "force-feed" him minutes that he has perhaps not earned. I understand that. But when given those minutes, he has to do something with them. And so far he hasn't.

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