Detroit vs. New York - Thurs. Jan 19th 2006

Discussion in 'January 2006 Games' started by roscoe36, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: Darko's rebounding

    i agree there is nothing wrong with pointing out something a guy needs to work on.

    but i feel darko is singled out for his lack of rebounding. yet our starting power forward rebounds in a similar fashion. i think it's more important for sheed to rebound than it is for darko. i too agree darko should work on rebounding. i think darko should be more aggressive offensively for his own shot. i think darko should knock some people down instead of light fouls. i also think he needs to be on the court to do this.
  2. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Starter Forum Donor

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    Sheed gets just over 6 rebounds a game, which ain't great, but when you have the league's leading rebounder, it doesn't matter so much. Ben doesn't score, but Sheed does. Sheed doesn't rebound that well, but Ben does. I don't see Sheed's rebounding being a problem when he brings a lot of other things to the table: great defense and an inside-outside game that causes matchup problems.
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i agree i don't see sheeds rebounding as too much of a problem. it's a team game. mcdyess rebounds well and jmax rebound well. those are the guys usually in with darko. so the team is ok. but darko can get better on the boards he's still young.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Doesn't anybody here notice how many rebounds Sheed backs off on when Ben is bouncing around. I have noticed that it is becoming common knowledge here that Sheed is a weak rebounder. I really don't think that is the case.
  5. clingman

    clingman First Round Draft Pick

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    Agreed, don't forget the double diget rebound game against SA, last night I think I remember atleast 3 times I heard Ben yell same as they were both there for the rebound. Sheed isn't and has never been about stats, he cares about getting to wear his belt again.
  6. Zoso

    Zoso First Round Draft Pick

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    As you can tell, it's been one of them days. LOL

    If you think that's bad, you should've seen me last night screaming at the TV. :doh: :laugh:
  7. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I think Darko will be a good player but I don't see where the minutes are coming from on this team in the next two years. darko needs 10-12 minutes a game, not 5-6. I don't agree with Thompson but the problem still remains. Davis is going to get more minutes soon. They spent money on him.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Chris McCoskey said basically (although a lot nicer) what Zo did about the comments from TNT on WDFN this evening.

    Is Zoso really Chris McCoskey?

    Just kidding.

    I stand by my opinion. I don't buy into DMC lovers and DMC haters. I want what is best for the Pistons. if that's Darko taking 18 foot jumpers as we win championships, so be it. I'm not crazy about that style of bball by bigs, but I'm sure that the winning will wear down my preconceptions.

    We're not seeing any competitive fire. We're not seeing the rewards of Arnie Kander correcting his movement mechanics, professional weight training, elite practice competition and arguable two of the better coaches in the NBA.

    All I care about are results, and there are none. Why I agreed with Thompson was simple. He's right. DMC was GIVEN time early in games and lost it. PERIOD. If he's not playing, THEN HE CAN'T PLAY. Flip is not stupid. He gave into whatever pressures there are to develop DMC early, but as the team starts to round into mid-season form, Darko is left on the outside looking in.

    Delfino has played his way onto the court in grand fashion. He's been tremendous lately. Particularly on defense and mixing it up with "name" players. You don't see that from Darko. On the one hand, people say the he doesn't try in garbage time, and yet in NY he did give effort which blows that theory out of the water.

    Some folks didn't like his rebounding. You know what I didn't like? That there was a fast break, and he had the opportunity to be the third man, trailing for a rebound putback, or to pressure the inbounds off of the make, and he just pulled up and stopped running.

    There is no joy for him in playing. No enthusiasm.

    Hey, stay, go, sit, play, I could care less. But for the love of Pete, I'm tired of hearing that he is a teenager (13-19 is a teenager, he's on the outside), or that he isn't getting chances. He's been given chances, he has capitalized on few of them.

    Wake up and smell the coffee folks. It went from, you will get playing time, to you have to earn playing time under Flip. Everything we have seen from the new coach indicates that he is nothing like Larry Brown when it comes to player relations.

    You see Arroyo and Delfino having fun on the sidelines, because they are interested. If DMC is no longer interested, and just happy to pick up his enormously bloated paychecks, then good for him. Please do it on another squad. We don't need anyone peeing in the Pistons DNA gene pool.

    Just had to get that off of my chest.
  9. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: From Darko to Arroyo

    Here's my take on Arroyo:

    1). This favorite plan (call it Plan A) is to practice his crossover dribble out front until he can brakedown his opponent and drive through the lane for a layup. He usually ends up on his butt because he is too weak to finish the shot. He may get a couple of freethrows.

    2). If Plan A doesn't work, he goes to Plan B. Same beginning. Dribble around until he can beat his opponent and then drive into the lane. Only this time he can't get to the rim, so he pulls up for a mid-range runner in the lane. He occasionally makes one.

    3). If he can't get to the rim, or is blocked from shooting, then he goes to Plan C. He much prefers plans A or B, but will, if forced to, go to plan C. This begins the same way - dribbling around until he can beat is opponent and then driving into the lane. If Plans A or B aren't available then, and only then, he will look to dish off to one of his bigs.

    4). If he is unable to beat his opponent off the dribble, and this happens quite frequently, he goes to Plan D. Plan D involves dribbling around for twenty seconds trying to get by his opponent. When he can't, he waits until there is about 4 seconds left on the shot clock and passes quickly to one of his teammates who then has about 3 seconds to throw up some god-awful buzzer-beater. If the shot goes in, Arroyo get an assist. If not, the team-mate gets charged for the shot.

    He then retreats to defense. His defense can be summarized quickly by using his nickname: EL MATADOR.

    Thus endeth today's lesson.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: From Darko to Arroyo

    So how exactly does all this translate into Arroyo having the 2nd highest assist rate in the league, behind only Nash? And why does our offense only drop off two percent between when CB, an MVP candidate, and Arroyo run the point for us. I'd be curious to hear how this is possible with all this overdribbling. What exactly is the magic Arroyo pulls out of his hat to be the most effective assist man in the league despite this great problem of his? (Although Nash is ahead of him in assists per minute, Arroyo blows Nash away in assist to turn ratio.)
  11. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Re: From Darko to Arroyo

    When i played point guard , i knew I could take anybody off the dribble, but I LOVED NOTHING more than ASSISTS. i had 18 IN ONE HALF in a high school game, but I look back and I know i was a ball hog. I think thats how Carlos is. he CANT score and he gets jollys on padding his assists. i like his bravado and his ghettoness. I dont want him to be plastic in the minutes he gets. He's more of a Kevin porter, my bruddahs, not a Maurice Cheeks..to me THE BEST POINT GUARD OF HIS ERA!
  12. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    BTW....all of us should watch the spurs vs heat with a lot of interest!!
  13. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I have problems comprehending all that. The only 'overdribbling' I see is that he's waiting for the guys to curl around the picks. If anything, he knows he can deliver the right pass at the right time and is holding (too much?)for that opportunity. He plays a lot of two-man basketball and has to learn to be comfortable and trusting of his teammates.
  14. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Does that mean you finally accept Sheed?

    Tipping in an offensive rebound infront of Curry and Frye doesn't count? Not backing down from Mutombo? How bout if he grows a goatee?

    6 points, 3 boards, 1 assist in 6 minutes? Sounds like a start. If Darko couldn't play, why hasn't Joe traded him or cut him loose like he did with Rodney White and Mateen Cleaves?

    Which theory is that, that Darko can't play, or Darko doesnt try?


    Darko is avg more ebounds per minute than Jmax and Sheed, that isn't a problem. And 7 footers dont run back as the third guy trailing, don't think I've ever seen Shaq do it, even once.

    Are you judging how he looks, Tay has the same look on his face.

    Is Darko a disappointment? Of course. Can he play? Sometimes, but I wouldn't say that he CAN'T play. What confuses me so much is why after finally having a good game, people are even more eager to ship him out. Last I checked, he's not hurting the team, unlike some people actually playing. So until he's a problem to the team either on the court or off the court, I have no problem rooting for him.
  15. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I guess I'm in the minority here, but I didn't think Darko played all that well.

    Oh, and Arroyo looked like dog poop and I don't give a crap how great his ass/turn ratio is or his assists per 48 minutes. Stats can be skewed to tell any story you want. I trust my eyes. I watched the entire game and all I saw was crap on a stick.
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Review of point guard play

    Both Billups and Arroyo ran the offense just fine thru their first stints. Arroyo did not return to the game until garbage time.

    Billups took the ball down the floor 17 times. On 16 of the trips, the Pistons got good shots on the trip down. Now, if we had a bad shot, but got the offensive rebound, and then got a good shot, I still count that as a good shot for the trip. And if you get a good shot, but miss, and then get an offensive board, you already have been credited with a good shot, and what happens further does not matter for that trip down. The only time we did not get a good shot was from CB's turnover. CB left the floor with us up 21-11 after 10 minutes of play. Plus 10.

    Arroyo, in the first half, took the ball up the floor 20 times in 8 minutes of playing time. On 18 of those 20 trips, we got a good shot. We outscored the other team 12 to 10 during this time. Plus 2 for Arroyo.

    Note, our team just made 6 shots during this 8 minutes, although they took about 18 shots. So we just shot around 33%. But we still kept the lead the same and even bumped it up a couple of points.

    Now, those were some good shots taken. Dyess wide open a couple of times. Evans in the corner wide open. Rip on a wide open midranger. Yes, there were defenders there, but none within about a foot and a half of him. These shots, good shots, were simply missed.

    Now, as for Arroyo's control of the ball, did he do anything all that fancy? Nope. He threw a pass, a guy happened to move over and the ball hit the back of the guys head. Complete accident. Arroyo palmed the ball for his other turn. Nothing all that fancy. Nothing King James don't get away with regularly. Just palming the ball. His other two turns were in completely meaningless garbage time so I won't even bother to review that.

    Let me break this down in a bit more detail. Arroyo came in with 4 starters with 2 minutes to go in the game. On three posessions, we scored 3 straight times, pushing the lead to 15 (from 10).

    To start the 2nd quarter, the following unit played for 2.5 minutes. Arroyo, Rip, Delfino, Dyess, Ben. This unit got outscored 6 to 3. They got five darn good shots off on five trips down the floor. They just were not hitting the shots.

    From 9:30 to 6:00 of the 2nd, the following unit played. Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, Dyess, Sheed. They were even at 2-2. Just two points scored off 4 good shots taken on 6 trips down the floor. The pass off the guys head took place here. But the Pistons had just taken a good shot and missed, getting the offensive rebound. So for this trip, the good shot was already credited. And the palming occurred here. And that bad call on the official. (But note, it was by no means and obvious call. In slow mo, yes, its obvious that the Knick swiped his hand just over the ball. In real time however, especially from the original angle shown, it looks like the Knick player slapped it out. We got the call, so it was not a turn.
  17. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with your last post. Darko gave a minimal effort with good results. Arroyo didn't look good at all.
  18. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Let me be more specific:

    Darko plays with NO passion or enthusiasm. In fact he sucks out the enthusiasm from the team. That's my major complaint with him. Until he brings some passion, he'll never amount to much no matter who he plays for.

    Arroyo's over dribbiling inhibits the movement of the other players. They run off screens, and then he holds on to the ball. So, they run off another screen and he still holds the ball. Then they quit moving. He's O.K. in transition because he has to do something with the ball. But in half-court, he's a real cork. AND his defense is just awfull: EL MATADORE'
  19. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm with you and Micro on Darko's abysmal lack of enthusiasm, both on the court and on the sidelines. (Flip has already commented on this in a very public way, and that's significant, because Flip is generally tactful and cautious in what he says publicly.) And, contary to what one poster intimated, it's not just that Darko has a quiet personality, as Tay does. It's far deeper than that.
  20. Caliban

    Caliban First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah, it sure doesn't take any insight into the game and players to be, perhaps, the best point guard in the game. And of course, he was never the NBA player that John Thompson was. :nod:

    Come to think of it, Thompson's probably jealous of Darko because the later at 17 was a better NBA player than he was.

    Once again I direct you to the reactions of the key players to Darko's successes. I think this is based on a respect for his talent and not a sign of personal fraudulence.

    This kid is down because of the way he was treated. If he gets twenty minutes a game next year--somewhere else--he will be a top ten player in 3-4 years and will be the best center in the NBA in six.

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