Did Joe actually "over-stayed" the course?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Wow! I agree 100%. Pistons fans have been spoiled and often acted like babies over the last several years. I remember the excitement of the Stackhouse Pistons finally getting to the playoffs and being one and done against the Celtics. In just a few years, they were a serious contender. Joe has done a great job with this team. If you doubt it, just follow any of the 24 other teams that haven't had this kind of success. (Sonics)
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I remember that too. And I remember when they were eliminated, not feeling too down, because I felt that was as good as that team was, and they accomplished as much as they could as they were constituted.
  3. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I say that "over-staying" meaning sticking with what you have, maintaining status quo per se. Nothing fresh was brought in and it got stale. That's how I am reading this. Even Wings constantly made moves even when they were winning: Hossa, Conklin, Stuart, bringing Ozzie back, Dallas Drake, etc. And they actually gave their youngsters a chance. So there are different ways you can look at it.
  4. blackhawk

    blackhawk First Round Draft Pick

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    Dumars brought in plenty of players...Maurice Evans, Carlos Delfino, Alex Acker, Sammy Mejia, Ronald Dupree, Nazr Mohammed, Will Blalock, Jarvis Hayes, Flip Murray, Tony Delk, Kelvin Cato, etc...
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    OMG DUDE.

    You totally forgot Tazr.
  6. blackhawk

    blackhawk First Round Draft Pick

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    How did i forget :pound:

    and Chris Webber!
  7. HarryFWong

    HarryFWong First Round Draft Pick

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    ok so 2004 they built the 'core'. 2005 they near win another title. i wouldnt expect a different core after that season. 2006 conference finals, after which, ben walks. 07 conference finals. 08 conference finals (and this team really coulda got it done). im just asking, which was the year when they should've been movers? i think joe's reasoning was that he was delivering a great product through that entire stretch. they never slipped out of the ECF. i just cant really justify calling making the ECF every year being a complacent team. you don't think joe listened to offers during that whole stretch? that's unrealistic. but i dont think he was going to make lateral move trades or even lesser ones. if the right deal was out there i think he would have taken it.

    i guess the question is, other than the obvious darko fiasco, what was the one specific move he failed to make? was he supposed to trade rip for kobe or sheed for duncan?

    i agree that the guys lost their hunger and sure they got older. hunger, drive, and passion are essential. but don't forget this: the 07-08 detroit pistons took the boston celtics 7 games in the ECF. they were on the cusp. you call that failure, but i say that joe knew he still had the team who had a strong chance to get it done, snd that's why he didnt go breaking up his core just yet.

    this debate could go on forever.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    6 games.

    The post LB Pistons didnt go 7 games in an ECF.
  9. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    ???

    So the best time to blow up your roster is when you have the best team in the league????? WTF?

    ...and since when is expecting a team that's capable of winning a championship to win a championship being spoiled? If that's the case, Buffalo Bills fans are the most ungrateful yahoos in sports.

    Joe's problem wasn't staying the course too long, it was not staying the course long enough (a la San Antonio). Instead, the minute LB came up short in the 2nd Finals appearance, they scrapped the plan to try to become more offensive despite not having the roster to accomplish this. If he was going to blow it up, he should have done it when hiring Flip instead of trying to make a fighter jet out of a tank.
  10. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

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    But the"tank" did take "flight"; there WAS success with Flip....i mean 3 ECF's, 64wins, 53 wins and 59 wins.... sometimes its just not going to happen. Season success and anything before the ECF, didn't equal a ring.

    Why was the team more dominate during the season under Flip than with LB?
  11. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Because Flip let them play...Which is why they got lazy.
  12. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well, if you consider winning a bunch of regular season games, then flaming out in the ECF to inferior opponents at least 2 of the 3 trips then you're entitled to that.

    However, reaching the NBA Finals two straight years in a row and winning one of them is far more dominant than 3 ECF's in my book and you won't convince me otherwise.
  13. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

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    Not trying to.... because LB's time produced better results.

    Just saying, Flip wasn't *that* bad....
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well, he's no Alvin Gentry, but when you had a team that you expected to compete for championships, Flip was NEVER the answer and was a horrible hire for a team that was talented enough to win it all.

    I felt like they squandered at least one more title by hiring that guy. When you have chances to win titles, you shouldn't take them for granted and just by hiring that guy, I think Joe D felt that team could win as long as the coach was "decent." I felt the coach needed to be "great."

    That's the other side of the "spoiled" argument. When you are the best, don't screw with your own chances. You'll have enough trouble trying to fight off the teams gunning for you.

    DET didn't take full advantage of it's opportunities with that roster and they played a large part in their own demise. That's why it's so frustrating, they COULD have done more, but shot themselves in the foot. It just made their opponent's job that much easier.
  15. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    While I agree, there aren't that many available coaches that would fit the bill with barely any of them available for hire.
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe, but they didn't help things by simply anointing Flip without conducting an 'actual' search.
  17. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Maybe it is so, and maybe Joe just looked at who is out there and decided that Flip is his best option.
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Flip is your best option...you have HORRIBLE options.
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Unfortunately, sometimes you have to pick the best from the least.
  20. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    as for the orginal hire, i was for it.... i thought his minn teams always overachieved there talent level in the west, and almost always lost to better teams in the playoffs....

    As much as i repected brown as a coach, the two sides were not going to be able to kiss and make up and a new coach had to be found...

    I think the problem was when Joe held onto him for the 2nd and 3rd seasons, not sure if he felt the team was going to be ok the following year or maybe he was fearful of the backlash for firing yet another coach after a short stay...

    I know Joe jumped to flip to fast, but where there any other exp coaches looking for work that summer that would have been a better fit?

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