Do the Pistons have the most useless bench in the league?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Winless Wonders, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    With the exception of McDyess, do the Pistons have the most useless bench in the league? Can you come up with another team that has a bench worse than the Pistons? I am not counting Amir Johnson as a part of the bench because he never really played.

    I am talking about Dale Davis, Nazr Muhammad, Ronald Dupree, Lindsay Hunter, Carlos Delfino, J-Max and Flip Murray. Can any of these guy's put up douple digit points a game? Can any of these guy's hit a shot if they are not wide open? I dont think so. Do any of these guy's have trade value? J-Max may have some value not much though because he is undersized. Other than that I don't think you can get much for any of these guy's.
     
  2. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Was Cavs bench any better? Boobie had one great game. Other than that they don't have much of anything.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    2 things

    1) Hope and pray that Hunter retires

    2) Hope that Murry gets traded or cut
     
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Here's one way to look at it - what share of team minutes did the top five players play. Top five ranked by total minutes played. If the top five play most of the minutes either the bench sucks or the coach has no faith in them, or the top five are good enough to carry it off. Given that none of the top five were in the finals, maybe the good enough argument isn't all that good.

    The Pistons fall some because of the lack of minutes from the five spot. For this ranking I summed Webber and Mohammed since it was pretty much one of the other starting.


    Top five shares...

    Phoenix - 69.8%
    Chicago - 66.8%
    Detroit - 65.2%
    Houston - 64.7%
    Philadelphia - 64.5%


    Bottom five shares...

    Toronto - 55.5%
    Atlanta - 54.9%
    Boston - 52.4%
    Miami - 49.1%
    Orlando - 29.0%


    Some teams end up in the bottom five because of injuries like Miami.

    San Antonio is 58.0%, just barely out of the bottom five. Dallas is 63.2% just out of the top five.
     
  5. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Boobie had more than one great game. Boobie was there leading scorer in game one of the NBA finals. He also put 31pts on us in game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals. Atleast you have to respect Boobie as a threat to score. You also have Donyelle Marshall who is streaky, but can put up some points once in a blue moon.
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Our bench must be wonderful. That's why everybody rags on Saunders instead of our lack of a bench. Everybody wants Flip Saunders canned, so I figure it's because the bench is wonderful, and he just didn't play them..............
     
  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    how will we ever know. When CB went down and Flip took over he produced. that was about it.
     
  8. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    One of the things to take into consideration regarding the lack of bench scoring is that except for short periods of time the bench guys are usually playing with at least 2 and maybe 3 of the six core guys, all of whom can score.

    So even though the non-core bench guys will get minutes the plays are run for the the the 2 or 3 core guys that remain in there and not the bench guys, except for Dyess. Sometimes I have noted Rip will even play with 4 bench guys and he gets most of the shots, not the bench guys.

    Since the Pistons fast break very little and run a structured offense the shots will mostly go to the six core guys when any of them are on the court and not to the other players that may be on the court at the time.

    That is why, other than Dyess, who is one of our best face up jump shooters, the other bench players don't get any or at the most most very few plays called for them. JMax has become somewhat of the exception because of his aggressiveness taking it to the hoop and getting offensive rebounds. So that gives the Pistons 7 guys that can score so the other guys are out for the most part.

    Flip could score a lot more if the Pistons were able to run more fast breaks when he was in or they used more of a free lance motion type offense.

    :hoops:
     
  9. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Sarcasm well taken, but the reality is when our bench players leave, they produce elsewhere; except for the guys who played.

    But look at who got minutes versus who didn't get minutes over the past few years. No way you can tell me we've been playing the best players.

    Curry, Darvin, Elden, Tony Delk, Derrick Coleman, and Mo got PT; but with the exceptions of Evans, who's been up and down in LA, they were out of the league after they left Detroit. Meaning, in the entire NBA, only Detroit thought these guys could play.

    Whereas Okur, Mike James, Arroyo, Darko, and soon to be Delfino; are all contributing to their new teams. Yet these guys couldn't get buy a minute of real pt with Detroit.

    My opinion, guys with talent cant be bench players in Detroit, because they want more minutes. And the quickest way to get a DNP is to not be a core player, and want more minutes. We reward no talent suckups.

    As for our bench next year, it looks like the worst bench we've had since the Stackhouse glory years. No backup point. A streaky backup 2 who can't play D, and isn't really a 2. No backup 3. An undersized and a rookie backup 4. An aging backup 4/5. And a discontent, who's probably happy to pick up his overpaid salary for the next 5 years.

    Awful
     
  10. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Do the Pistons have the most useless bench in the league?





    Are you kidding me? I cannot think of a bench that gets more action than ours. Money well spent. Yessir.








    [​IMG]
     
  11. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Good post, buddahfan.

    This is why I have continually advocated that at times (in selective occasions) a bench player starts. It is an experimental process where you are able to know your players potentials through relationship patterns. It takes a strong coach and very strong GM. Won't happen here and to be fair, most teams shudder at the psychological complexities of this approach. The only option is to get total buy-in from your major stakeholder(s)...your superstar or high leadership levels. Their would be some dead zones during the implementation phase, but you would be able to quickly survey your talent level. It would put JD nearly out of business.

    Cleveland had some nice luck, although to me it was evident (check out my post about Dixon) just by watching his reactions during player flow. I mean, did Delfino and the rest of the bench (as a rookie no less) every throw up 30+ points in a playoff game?

    I have huge issues with the administrative side of this organization. It is soft in far too many places. One is a total company coach...a talented survivor and nearly as slick as a 30 year IBM executive. The other seems to gain his confidence levels from the deepest and darkest corners away from any public observation...and no, this display does not transform into a magic potion being concocted and the fairy dust adding to his illustrious image.

    This last year proved the point of no return. I would much rather show youthful excitement in front of the home crowd who deserved much more that this team showed them. Big bucks are being thrown out to multimillionaires who no longer have respect for their fan base, minus of course, the clips of beloved Stern-like community involvement.

    Yes, you have had a long run and we all love a winner. When this all started, gas and Motown middle class were cheap and in abundance. Now, we have nasty, self serving customers quickly beaten through the door by front-loaded leadership levels.

    Players, your pay has not decreased. I want no less for you or your families. But please, for 10, 25, 35, 40 minutes per game, can you at least give something back to the fans who don't travel by jet and have to pay for their own meals.
     
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    what does this mean?
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's bloody brilliant, that's what it is. :thumb:
     
  14. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Brilliant indeed.
     
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    our bench wasn't the problem in the playoffs. there's tons of other teams with with atrocious benches. ours is at least in the top half.
     
  16. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    You are joking right? :nerd2:
     
  17. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    That is correct. The bench that the players sat on was 1st class expensive pressed wood, purchased from Office Depot. No problem with that.

    The problem was the players that came off the bench after the game started.

    :hoops:
     
  18. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    it was the starters who didn't get it done in the playoffs. i don't see what was so wrong with our bench?

    most teams would love to have mcdyess as their 6th man, nazr's been a starting center for a championship team, flip murray was starting for a team that took us to 7 games in the ECF last year, you all love delfino, maxiell is a game-changer, hunter and davis are playoff-experienced, and dupree is the perfect 12th man.

    your first question in this thread was wondering if you could come up with a team with a worse bench than the pistons, which is a silly question. orlando, boston, philly, chicago, cleveland, etc., etc., etc. the list goes on and on.
     
  19. Maverick

    Maverick First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree.. There are alot worse benches in the league.. and I just want to say that alot of ppl on this forum were all excited about our bench this year comparing it to the championship year... I think now its just ppl being upset about us losing and taking it out of the pistons.
     
  20. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The Pistons bench should of been very good, but they were not played consistently so yeah they ended up being useless.
     

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