Do we even miss Darko and Arroyo?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Mar 30, 2006.

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  1. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    can't you read? Remember, the s is very close to the d. Reading the sentence, it's obious what he meant.
    Some of you just don't want to realize that we gave up a great player and probaly get nothing in return since Joe D is a horrible drafter at early positions and the Pistons are a horrible team in developing young talent.

    It's sad some people are going to need a longer time to realize how good Darko is going to be and everyone's gonna have forgotten their comments on him being average material.
    I'm still pissed of by this trade in favor for an aging Ben who seems not to have such a gread attitude.
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    BBJ needs to use the comma. He said if given 30 min. or 10 more than he's avg. then he would be 15 and 8.
    Now you're getting with the program Bills, Darko is Superman Junior!
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I know one thing. Ben is a championship player. He's been voted to the All-Star game by the coaches, and doesn't have the advantage of ethnic support when balloting occurs.

    We gave up what could be a great player. He has yet to show or prove greatness. Yes, it may well happen, but don't put the cart before the horse. You actually have to win and dominate as a starter before words like "greatness" and "All-Star" can be bandied about.

    Joe may be a horrible early round drafter (that flies in the face of Darko fans right?) but he is by far the best GM in the business. So taking into account he's so bad in one department, Joe is able to compensate by being absolute dominant in others (negotiations, free agency, team building, late drafting, trades).

    Kinda like how Ben sucks at free throws and yet still is in the rebounding champion mix despite giving up 3 or 4 inches to his competitors, is considered one of the best defenders in the NBA, and is in the top 30 all-time in NBA career blocks while only at the midpoint of his career.

    Joe didn't get fleeced on that trade. He gets to keep one of the league's ALL TIME great players (possibly two with Chauncey) while giving up a POTENTIAL great player in return. At worst it is a wash.
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    All good points Roscoe. Unfortunately the potential a lot of us see is mouth watering [not a gay inuendo]. Joe did what he need to keep his core group of 'ship level players together for another 3 years. Not easy at all. Don't forget he let TDrib go so he could get Buckets. Super Strong move, most would think.
    Now will you admit that the "Darko Project" was a meat in the freezer move? [marker] And was never never going to be a Piston court contributor.
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    yeah that aging ben, nicknamed 'body' around the league, is a very OLD 31. i mean, do you realize next year he's going to be...*gasp*...32?? trade him now!! ben has showed no signs of slowing down and the rest he gets in the offseason isn't going to make him dramatically slower because there's a few extra months tacked onto his life.

    darko will never be more than an average player.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Joe is patient and flexible. He's had 3 very different coaches here in the last 5 years. He's turned over the end of the bench, parted with vets and youngins.

    Darko was not a meat in the locker move when he was drafted. We didn't have Sheed yet, Easy was near the end of his career, Memo had free agency coming up and Zelly's heart problems probably spooked some folks.

    But when the Pistons got Sheed and won the title, everything changed. Salary structure, pecking order, you name it.

    Did Darko get screwed? I don't think so. Not in the long run. Detroit would have held his Bird rights and would probably not used those rights to give him a MAX++ deal. Now those rights are with Orlando, a young team that can, if they deem it necessary, MAX++ Darko into a franchise player.

    It just wasn't in the cards here once Rasheed was traded for.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    JD wanted to keep Darko around so that he could take over when we need him in 2-3 years. The problem was that Darko was not willing to sit in humiliation and give up the $10 Million/ year on the next contract extension. It was an unrealistic plan that ultimately failed for the Pistons. No one is getting too upset by it because we are accomplishing our goals anyway.

    I'm a little upset because we are settling for 4 to 5 titles versus 6 to 10. I wanted a Celtics-like super dynasty. Instead we are stuck with a bad boys mini-dynasty.
  8. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He did this season- he had games with his old rebounding self and games when he grabbed 6 boards which surely isn't Ben- like. He depends on being in best shape and the older he gets, the bigger risk is involved with his "body". Don't misunderstand me, right now, he's the nucleus and emotional leader. But one has to realize how long he can stay that since he relies more on his fitness than any other player in this team.
    I give him about 2 years on the highest level.
    We'll have the Darko talk in 2 years. I hope that I'm never going to have to see a Howard/Milicic frontcourt kicking the old boys asses in the playoffs.
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I don't know if I can concede it was a simbionic relationship between Darko and the Pistons. Both sides enjoyed some benefits. Darko got to the NBA and out of Euro. And money and great coaching. We got solid value with a 2 pick, [if JD says Bigs, then its Bigs]. And a tradable player down the line. If a rookie couldn't get these guys to a 'ship and the coaches can't risk it, then he couldn't be played.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    If Darko thought for a MINUTE he could be a Piston, we broke his big young pure bball lovin' heart !
  10. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    TaS, 4 to 5 years. And I don't think it was about money with darko. It may have been with his agent and the value seen buy other GMs and NBA pseudo laws. Darko wanted minutes, nothing else. He has been playing league bball since he was 14.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    How much do you think the Pistons were going to offer him in another year if he kept sitting the bench with us?

    And how much with the Magic offer him next year?

    He wanted minutes so that he could have a career. The way people were talking about Darko when he was here was that he was the biggest bust in NBA history and would be out of the league in 2 years.
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Would you agree minutes can compensate for money. The reverse was not true for Darko. $4 mil. [his contract] At the Magic, if they are as smart as JD maybe, $8 mil. per.
    ...But not playing him we got no court value or skills advertising. But devalued "potential" value. All the creeps that said he was a bust are shortsighted, out of the loop, losers.
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    have you watched ben this year? he is definitely showing signs of age. just watch the way young power forwards and centers have career nights against the pistons. no they aren't winning championships but they are giving ben and the pistons a preview of what's to come. ben is not getting better he's actually getting worse. if he adds an ego to his definite lack of skills he's good for 2 more years at the most. he isn't like webber or mcdyess that can extend thier careers because of other skills ben is all hustle and athleticism. 1 bad ankle sprain and he becomes very very average.

    darko wasn't going to take over the franchise this year. he didn't even have to be a major contrib this year. the pistons just had to play the guy 7 minutes a night to keep him happy for a couple of years. lb gave ben the opening missed shot of the game last year to keep him happy. i guess darko hasn't earned the right to be happy. if the orlando magic can win games playing darko 20 minutes per game i know the pistons can win games playing him 7. it was a bad move because orlando got the best frontline in the east for the next ten years if they resign both d. howard and darko. we will get a low pick because orlando will make the playoffs. yes. we'll get the championship this year and next but we were going to do that anyway so i see it as a backwards move.
  14. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    You Darko (or whoever) slappys have been predicting Ben's imminent downfall for years now. Same cats during the Carlisle years saying Ben needed to score. Blah blah blah, too old, blah blah blah, can't score like T-Mac, blah blah blah. :blah:

    Ben is the heart and soul and Body of the Pistons. Ben has taken the team to a championship, a game 7 in the finals, and the best record in the league. I guess if this is slowing down, so be it.
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    actually ben looks as good as he ever has, i haven't seen any signs of aging. he'll be the DPOY, and if that's showing signs of age then i can certainly deal with it.

    btw anyone wanting darko to get minutes means you wanted mcdyess to get less minutes, when he's shown that the extra minutes only makes him that much better. would you rather have the improved mcdyess in the playoffs? or the mcdyess we saw at the beginning of the year, combined with an inexperienced and unintelligent basketball player with a lot of shotblocking ability?

    and it's hilarious how people think there's a 'best frontcourt' lock for the next 10 years. howard might decline now that darko has him wanting to have an outside scoring game lol
  16. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I wonder if Dyess would have gotten his O going quicker if Darko was getting some of his mins. [weak, I know] And I wonder how much more wear we could have gotten from BBen if Darko was taking some of the load.
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    weak excuse. there were plenty of minutes to be spread around so darko could get 7 minutes. he could have took a few minutes from sheed, ben, tay and mcdyess. who is to say that mcdyess wouldn't have improved with 2 fewer minutes that he gave to darko. i think you are going a bit too far calling darko unintelligent. but that isn't the choice we had to make. we could have had a 7 foot shotblocker on the bench and the hot shooting mcdyess too. it wasn't an either or situation we could have had all of them if the players were managed right.

    rewatch last years finals and see how when you get in foul trouble having a athletic 7 foot shot blocker to come off the bench could come in handy.
    darko will push howard to be better and vice versa. both of them have only scratched the surface. dwight has already rubbed off on darko rewatch the pistons game against orlando and see darko doing well in the post. don't worry about the decline everybody knows howard has immense potential. joe would trade ben straight up for howard if it was possible.
  18. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    BBall,
    Do you honestly believe that Darko would sign his 2nd contract here with the limited minutes he would receive?
    Something had to give... at least we received some compensation before it was too late.
  19. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i diasgree.

    unintelligent and inexperienced. any decent 4 would eat him alive in a playoff situation - just pump fake to get him off his feet, and either draw the foul or get an open look at the basket.

    get off this point already. all LB had to do was play mcdyess or even elden against tim. we had 2 players that should have been used ahead of darko.
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    he did a pretty good job checking our PF. sheed had nothing coming when darko was checking him. yes darko goes for pump fakes but so do a lot of shot blockers. he gets some of those shots too and alters plenty more. i think you are way overboard saying he would be ate alive. you are also forgetting the fact that if darko was in during the playoffs this year he would be in against the second string center.

    sorry but the point is valid. according to lb we had 3 players that could have been used ahead of darko and tayshaun ended up getting the call. if lb had handled darko right from the start he would have been ready to take on the challenge of duncan for 2 minutes. he couldn't have did worse than what tay did. i was only bringing this up as an example of how having a young shot blocker on the bench is a luxury instead of two aging vets.

    yes. i believe darko would have signed his 2nd contract here if the promises the pistons made to him were kept. i don't think darko left for money at all. he left simply because he wanted to play. i think he enjoyed winning, he enjoyed his team and he enjoyed detroit. darko would have been happy with a gradual increase in playing time on a championship team. this could have provided a smooth transition between the sheed, mcdyess and ben era into the maxiell, darko, amir era.

    yes. i'm glad we got some compensation because the way we handled him we were going to lose him. i think all darko wanted was to be treated right. he was not given that as a piston.
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