Do we even miss Darko and Arroyo?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Mar 30, 2006.

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  1. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Oh, it was a Canadian thing, my bad. I would go Christian Lattner to Bob McAdoo.;]
    ...I was going for job matchups. Kind of a cross between dance and rapp like Snoop fronting for AWB ? My only diff. from your setup is BBen is, no,
    I'm thinking Sly and the Fam. or EWF or James Brown and his band of renown. Still monster bands that at the time, everyone recognized.
  2. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    it takes more money to get a guy to stay in philly than it does to take a guy to stay in detroit. ask sheed, tay, ben, chauncey. guys sign for less to win championships and to be remembered for greatness.

    mcdyess is better than ben to me. he does it on both ends of the court. i just feel ben's impact and worth to the pistons is way overstated. our best lineup is when mcdyess is in for ben. i mention the intangibles because people use those to justify ben being in the game when his stats and impact on the game don't.
    yes. ben is a part of a great group but as a solo artist he wouldn't make it. he's no bobby brown. i'm not saying jamal crawford is a bigger star than ben at all. i'm saying he may be a more marketable player individually. intagibles don't sell shoes dunks, 3's, assists and point production does.

    yes. he played dirk well. i'll give him that. he plays shaq one on one if you call bounce bounce dunk playing him well. i think darko could play him equally well if not better. darko would at least make him work on the defensive end. i think as ben's defensive qualities go down it becomes harder to overlook is very obvious negative impact offensively.

    yes. we will have this conversation in 2 or 3 years. darko will lead the nba in blocks, be a good rebounder, be dpoy and put up 15 a night. the magic will be in the championship race in 3 years after they get playoff experience. check out thier lineup the magic may be the closest ones to knocking us off. they are big like us and they have a great guard to build with.

    everyone set an impossible standard for darko to reach because he couldn't be as good as the front 3. everyone talked about what darko couldn't do or wasn't ready to do. his assessment wasn't applied fairly. now that darko is playing everyone is still trying to down what he is doing. he's proving people wrong left and right the guy has a great future and so does his team and he's 20. he's doing more than ben was at 20.
  3. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Is this Lee357?
  4. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    nope. i'm just one of darko's biggest supporters i was with him right from the start. now that he is doing just the things i said he would be able to do people don't like it. i've always been ahead of the times with young players. just remember the things i said about darko.
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I know. I hope people finally realize Darko had no chance here. No chance!
  6. Caliban

    Caliban First Round Draft Pick

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    :nod: Unh hunh!!! :nod:
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yep. Individuality leads to marketing. But it doesn't necessarily lead to winning. You made my point. Ben don't need a shoe deal to get league wide respect (recently voted by the players toughest rebounder in the "L", DPOY, All-Star by way of coaches selection etc.)

    Ray Allen play in the Finals? How about Baron Davis? In two cracks did JKidd win a title? How about Iverson? You think Gilbert Arenas or Stephon Marbury is gunna get a title shot anytime soon? HELL NO.

    You obviously did not see Ben punk Shaq several times this year. He's actually playing Shaq better than the 2 years previous.

    Shaq had one good game against him out of 4. That's a damn fine winning % against arguably still the best Center in the NBA.

    Btw, I didn't see Orlando play Miami recently, but my homeboy told me that Shaq sent Darko's butt skating across the paint. There is being a hero and there is letting Shaq get his early, deflecting the ball, stealing the inbounds pass and getting the timely block on the Diesel. Ben does the latter. Darko, the former. Maybe he'll learn. Yao Ming never did.
  8. tpaPistonFan

    tpaPistonFan First Round Draft Pick

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    Orlando is playing better for 2 reasons. 1. Nelson is back from injury 2. Steve Francis is playing for NY. Please don't give Darko that much credit. For the love of God, if he was so damn awesome he would be starting and playing the bulk of Battie's minutes. I am not saying Darko isn't good, he just isn't as good as some of you make him to be. God reading some of the posts you would think that Darko was the 2nd coming of Jordan.. Just to put it into perspective, Darko isn't even the 3rd best player on a non playoff team!!! He is probably the 4th best player which says a lot for the Pistons (where he was the 12th best player). We are loaded with talent both young and old..
  9. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    kobe has a few titles, shaq has a few titles. just because you are marketable doesn't mean you won't win titles. i'm just saying ben isn't as marketable as you think. he gets respect from nba insiders not from the common man. we respect him for hard work but he doesn't sell shoes.
    shaq has been out of shape this year. i've seen shaq dunk on ben quite a few times this year also. shaq having a good game against ben is more a matter of miami getting him the ball early in the game and often than ben having a good defensive game against him. yes ben is a winner but that doesn't mean he is the total key to winning. that doesn't mean he will be the key to winning 3 or 4 years from now. ben is the pistons present not the future.

    yes. i heard similar reviews. darko got dogged by shaq. when darko gets the refs respect shaq won't be able to just bull him over. it's just his first game against shaq but he will get better and better against him. shaq will also have to check darko on the other end something he doesn't have to do when he plays ben. darko will learn to defend shaq better but will ben learn to shoot, pass and be a threat on offense so his man can't double team or rest??
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    there is a lot of talk that darko should be starting over battie. he outplays him in less minutes often. battie hasn't lost his job and isn't handing it over to darko. battie can still play and he fits in with the starters well. don't overlook darko's contribution though he shuts down the paint when he is in there. he shoots a high percentage and he rarely gets the ball but he causes problems for the other team by posting up. he is the 4th best player on the 2nd hottest team in the nba. they aren't a playoff team because of what happened before the trade.

    darko is 20. he will get better that's why there is talk about him. he is having a big impact as a 20 year old with very little experience 2 years of rust.

    sure didn't look like any of those 11 players that were better than him could stop him when orlando played us. that's my whole issue with the pistons and darko he wasn't our 12th best player. that's the wrong way to look at him he was our 20 year old phenom that could have extended our run and made us into a dynasty ala the celtics.
  11. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    bball,
    Ben beats Shaq to rebounds... out runs him down the floor...strips the ball... Shaq is one dimensional.... as Micro said Ben's a big reason we've beaten Shaq's teams on a regular basis... sounds like you hate Ben lately... sorry he got in Darkos way.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree that Nelson is playing great (at least on offense), but if Steve Francis was so bad, then why was Orlando playing him?

    Answer: the same reason they aren't starting Darko. Seniority. What they are doing, which is telling, is playing Darko in the 4th quarter.

    What is the best way to measure Orlando's best player right now? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but PER and +/- are probably the 2 best ways to do it and he and Arroyo are at the top in both. How can you argue against the fact that when Darko has been on the floor, Orlando has played their best basketball. Nelson is scoring a lot of points, but he must also be costing them if it doesn't show up in his +/-.

    Here are some stats for you to think about. When Darko is on the floor, the opponents eFG% goes from .50 to .46 and the Magic beat their oponents by 6.5 points vs. losing by 2.5 when he's benched. That is a 9 point differential that measures all those "better" players you're talking about playing without him. The Magic block 9% of the other teams shots with him out there vs. 5% when he is on the bench. Orlando's turnovers go down and the other team's go up. If Darko is not Mr. Intangible, then it is an extreme coincidence that this statistical abboration has occured accross the board.

    I'm guessing that you haven't really watched him in action since the trade and don't care about the stats.
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I think the total love fest for the great white hope is gross. Especially when you need to drag Ben through the mud to justify your wierd obsession with some 20 year old kid. This is exactly why I hate Darko.

    I used to like the kid. Cheer him on, and look for the positives... but after all this crap about Ben, and the blind lust for "potential" and "the future" I just can't stand it anymore.

    The Pistons are set to win a Ship. They have one from 2004, came a couple of minutes from another in 2005, and are the envy of the League. Enjoy the Magic. Check out the "potential" in Portland. Drool over Dirk. Just stand clear of the tracks, because this train is rolling.

    Think of it this way, Jay: In 20 years, when your kids are asking you about the "glory days" of the Pistons, are you gonna tell them you wasted your time sobbing and crying over a kid from Serbia and a couple of 11th and 12th men?
  14. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I feel the same way. These sniffers have turned a majoity of the forum against Darko. Lust is right. Sick.
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Basketbills, what is with the Bronco?
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If we benched Ben all year and then traded him for a wet sock, I bet there would be some people here sticking up for him too.
  17. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    You will notice that I have been silent on the Darko stuff lately. Figure I am not going to change anybody's mind anyway. But Darko (with 10 points so far in this game) is busy icing home court advantage for the Pistons right now as we write.

    Bet nobody from the hater-side even knows this.
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Are you talking about a regular old tube sock or one of those fancy thermal insulated socks that people use for ice fishing?
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I went to WMU Billy
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Me too, basketbills.

    Is Arroyo in the doghouse or hurt? He's got DNP going again tonight.
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