Does Ben Wallace = $100 Mill?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Zoso, Oct 30, 2005.

?

Is Ben Wallace worthy of a $100 million contract?

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. No

    36 vote(s)
    81.8%
  3. Not sure

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  1. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,449
    Likes Received:
    450
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    100Mil

    I have not read the new Max Salary clause in the CBA yet. Given the past CBA teams re-signing a vet can pay more than teams offering so Pistons will have the upper hand.

    I agree with Merc in a shorter contract since 6 years from next summer would find Ben Wallace as a slow footed 38yr player making who knows what.

    One thing for sure I would not want to go up against Ben Wallace in the 2007 playoffs. He would totally school Darko. Simply blocking Chicago from getting him would be worth a couple extra mil.

    Don't worry about it - nothing has changed. Signing Ben in 06 has been the plan all along.

    Plus the hard cap will steadly increase over the years so the Pistons will not be in as bad of shape as Blakely and others speculate. Just means some cuts will have to be made with the bench. Should have enough for all 5 starters plus Darko and 1-2 other decent bench guys. And Sheed strikes me as the type of player that would not play past his prime.
     
  2. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    I hope the 100 Million figure is a joke. You don't go "re-paying" a player, just because you got them on a good deal before. That's not how it works. And certainly no other team is going to offer him a deal to make up for the years of ONLY making 6-7 Million (*Single Tear*).

    The fact is we gave him more than anyone else was willing to offer at the time. Does this mean Chauncey is going to get 100 Million as well? I mean, HE is the undisputed leader of this team, and is now the least paid starter on the team. At least Chauncey will still be very productive into his upper years, since most of his value comes from shooting and leadership. With Ben, no one really knows what to expect. He can't shoot to save his life, and all of his rebounding/defensive skills are based on being a great athlete. When it comes to those skills, they go down sharply at the age he's at.
     
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    No other team will pay ben 100 million unless they want to mess up this franchise. Defensive players don't get as much respect as offensive players, and it has always been like that and it will always stay like that. plus i think Ben will decide to stay here probably even if he doesn't get as much money.
     
  4. Jman

    Jman Second Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UAE
    I think Mutombo was an exception, being a defensive great and getting a max contract in his 30's? Not that it was a wise idea from the teams' standpoints, of course.

    I think it is prudent to pay a player like Ben for previous performance, although maybe not at the 6y/100m level. If the Pistons' didn't, it would make them look cheap and *could* look to other players as if they exploited him, lowering the team's reputation among potential free agents. Dumars has avoided this in the past with lesser players and would be loath to do it with the team's marquee player in these glory years.

    Also, someone mentioned that Ben can earn more from endorsements in Detroit - not sure about that, compared with the market size and $ in Chicago, for example. But there might be another side to the equation - he is the most marketable of the Pistons players and Mr. D certainly earns more money from advertising and TV revenue with the Fro on the team. So if Mr. D can earn an extra 1$m a year with Ben, adding that 1$m/y to a contract makes sense.
     
  5. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,945
    Likes Received:
    1,127
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Keep in mind Jman Ben's royalties on the the fro wigs...he's got to be making a couple of bucks a piece on those things. If we want to keep him here we should all buy a fro wig.

    I say no to a max contract for Ben. Rosters change so quickly in the NBA...when we played Dallas the other night it was mentioned that Nowitski was the only player left from their 2003 playoff roster. As long as Joe hasn't promised him anything I think Ben may have to move on to get the max.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,774
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    We need to take care of Ben. It's the right thing to do. Period.

    Ben and his agent are not stupid. They know that a guaranteed long term and big money deal means that he will be passed around (traded) more times than a peace pipe at the DHOF meetings.

    Ben doesn't strike me as a greedy dude. His hobbies are racing RC cars and hanging out with his sons. His wife does his hair, and that Fro is a low maintenance do if I ever saw one.

    One thing that concerns me, is that Ben still makes his offseason home in Alabama. One thing in our favour over Chicago is that they have a Chinatown, and Ben hates Chinese food.
     
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,945
    Likes Received:
    1,127
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Good point. I'm sure that angle will get used in negotiations. Remember too, that Joe D isn't a lair(sic) and if he has made some promises to Ben Dumars will honor them.
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    53
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    This is a difficult decison. In my opinion, Ben's current effort is definitely enough to warrant being one of the higher paid players in the league. If Ben was his offensive equivalent, this probably wouldn't even be a debate. If Ben could continue his same level of play for another 6 years, I could see where that amount of money is fair according to his worth and production. The unfortunate thing is that I'm not extremely confident that will be the case. Ben is a very physical player which I think will weigh on his longevity in the league. On the other hand, the development of Darko and the reemergence of Dice on this team may have extended his longevity in this league another couple of years. I would be inclined to say that a compromise is needed.

    Kill a year off the contract, and call it a day.

    Otherwise, I would vigorously try to sell Ben on the idea of taking less money to preserve a core that has an opportunity to be a dynasty. That is a legacy that has value in itself.

    ..and if you get stuck...sign him.

    We could do far worse. At that point in time, I venture to say that a declining, hard working Ben will probably still be better than half of the league.
     
  9. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    elden did the job on shaq in 2004 and in 2005 not ben. shaq was handing ben his hat. in 2004 the lakers would often go away from shaq and his obvious dominance against ben. but if you look at the hands shaq still has way more rings than ben .that's why he demands 100 million add him to your team and you're instantly a contender not the case with ben. look at what shaq's 100 million dollar contracts are doing in the places he plays. they are restricting what other types of players the team can put around him. now you can build around shaq and kg but you can't build around ben. he's too 1 dimensional.

    we don't need a 20 point player that can defend shaq. we need a player that will play at a high enough level to win that doesn't restrict us to the point that we have to destroy our core in 2 years because we can't resign players. then go to the lottery.

    scoring 20 points on the pistons is hard to do if you aren't the # 1 option on offense. but on another team yes i believe darko could put up 20 and defend shaq. darko's problem right now defensively is foul trouble.
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,733
    Likes Received:
    3,080
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Big Ben

    If Chicago gets Ben next year, then I'm getting Bulls seasons tix. I would hope the Pistons would keep him, but not if it means that we lose Chauncey, etc.
     
  11. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    $100m?

    At 25, yes. At 31, no.

    I can't see giving him more than four years at about $12m-$13m per year. If you give him, say, six years and $90m, you're paying him in the $20m range when he's 36 or 37. I love Ben, but no player (probably not even Shaq) is worth that kind of money at that age, especially when you look at that in conjunction with Tay and Rip toward the end of their contracts (not to mention potentially Chauncey, Darko, etc.).

    I really don't think the issue is going to be the money per se. Ben isn't about money. But he WILL want to feel like he's being treated fairly, and that (the equity of the deal) will be the bigger thing for him (I would guess).
     
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    858
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I don't think Ben, if we keep this strictly on the court is anymore valuable than Rasheed. They both have things they do better than the other, and together they are an awesome compliment. I feel that you pay Ben somewhere between $1-$2 mill more than Sheed is chedeuled to make in the 06-07 season, and you ink him for 4 years. Pays him an avg of around $15 mill per for 4 years. That gives us great flex in the future, expiring contracts are like Gold in this league now-a-days.
    So let's say we give Ben a 4 year $60 mill deal
    Year 1 (06-07)$13,000,000.00
    Year 2 (07-08)$14,300,000.00
    Year 3 (08-09)$15,600,000.00 (Final year off Sheed's deal about $13 mill
    Year 4 (09-10)$16,900,000.00 (Sheed off books all together)

    Now in 08-09 & 09-10 we have big expiring contracts that can be traded very easily.
     
  13. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,945
    Likes Received:
    1,127
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    KGreg

    The only problem I have with your contract scenario is that it amounts to about 10 million dollars per bone chip in Ben's ankle.
     
  14. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    1,486
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Oh man, thats harsh.
     
  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    Kgreg, I agree with the $'s and length... I just want to see them give Ben a large signing bonus up front and keep the backend of the deal down.
    This way it cost us much less in the long run for the lux tax.
    If you give him the $'s up front it would be before Darko's new contract and before Rip, Sheed, Tay & Prince get into major $'s.
    It would also make his salary match closer to his performance & PT as he gets older.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    858
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Are we allowed to do that??
     
  17. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    Yeah it can be done... Boozer got a big bonus up front (now has same salary for each year)... I believe Odom also got a nice signing bonus.
    It still goes on the cap.
    Most teams don't like doing it this way because it throws them into the Tax in the first year... but we've got some substancial contracts growing at the same time.
     
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    53
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    that would be my vote.
     
  19. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    tax relief idea

    Hey, I'll agree to be the 15th guy for free.

    I won't complain about playing time, I'll just sit at the end of the bench and watch the game. Maybe chat it up with some of the players.

    That should help them with some luxury tax relief. Really, how many times has the 15th guy won anyone a Championship? I'd be inactive every game anyway.

    Joe, if you're reading this, call me.
     
  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    I think they should give Ben whatever it takes to keep him but only up to the point that they feel it may jeopordize the immediate future of the franchise. At that point you thank him for everything he has given and let him know there will be something for him (a positon) when he retires.:thumb:
     

Share This Page