1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Draft 2012 Kander Effect

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, May 6, 2012.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    861
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I've been thinking about this for a while now and its been slow so I figure I'd post this here and get some talk going.

    One of the cool things about following the Pistons is reading about Arnie Kander and what he sees physiologically in players and how he addresses them. That got me thinking about Jared Sullinger who is projected to be available in the 9-14 range and comes with serious concerns to front office staff and fans alike.

    Jared Sullinger is bona fide NBA talent. He is two time All American. He averaged 17.5 points and 9.3 rebounds this season. His mature skill set and strength allows him to be effective down low on both ends.

    The knock on him as a prospect is the lack of athleticism. Athleticism is a broad term and like with Greg Monroe, its inacurate. Monroe was athletic. He had balance, control, strength, power. He didn't have exceptional leaping ability. Sullinger isn't in the same boat but he isn't as bad as people make out. Primarily, this is because his strengths lie in his lower body.

    Athleticism or more concisely, explosiveness, is not black box mysticism. Its a combination of physiological mechanics and need to work together to maximise power and efficiency. Sullinger has several obvious aspects that is affecting that. Will Kander be able to fix it? I'm sure there's a mango extract out there to help Sully out!

    Factor 1: Weight. Sully started the season at 269 after a much publicised weight loss program. That's down from the 290 during his freshman year. He then put back 10 lbs. to 'be more effective' in the low post. This all about a guy who has learned to utilize his mass to accomplish his goals. That mass, though, will hinder his speed and explosiveness. Now, you don't just put back weight unless its bad weight. Muscle weight takes time. Sullinger needs to take a 265 baseline body and add 10 lbs of muscle to it. It needs to be balanced so he doesn't throw his back (or knees or feet) out. A big part of that is diet which, by all accounts, has been improved but needs to become a professional athlete's diet. All pro level trainers are accomplished at building core strength and power and Kander is one of the best. I wouldn't expect to see dramatic improvement until year 2.

    Factor 2: Balance. One leg is an inch longer than the other. I have a 70/30 split in the distribution of weight between my legs. This partially because my hip is off by 1/2 an inch. It's been noted that the leg thing is apparent in Sullinger's running gait. Back when Darko was a rookie with us, Kander talked about his weight distibution and how that inefficiency affects an athletes explosiveness. I believe that this is a major factor in Sullinger's lack of athleticism. It's also one of Kanders core building blocks; fancy that. Rip mentioned that alignment work and focus on balance helped him excel as a Piston. Put Sullinger on the balance board and see if alignment work on his body can't rectify the balance issue and then see where he is at athletically. This is probably not going show results under 2 years as well.

    Factor 3: Flexibility. Range of motion is a key factor in explosiveness. I don't have much to say about this other than it looks like Jared's got a lot of room for improvement and Kander focuses on this as well.

    If the Piston's staff doesn't see him passing the workout tests then so be it. But if they do select him. I think Arnie's got a lot of work to do but things are definitely correctable. Sullinger already has the motor, the winning attitude, and a solid work ethic to go along with a low post skill set, good footwork and an evolving jump shot. He may never be a 2 way dominator but with improvements to his body mechanics, he may develop into a fringe all-star candidate or at least a solid 16/8 guy.
     
    roscoe36 and basketbills like this.
  2. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    861
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I'll try to look at Henson and Leonard as well. Intruiged at what the staff could do to address their 'flaws' after draft day.
     
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Arnie Kander walks into the workout room, takes a long look at his young prospect before he points to the wall while swinging his leg up and down says, "Let's see if you're a Piston, kid.".
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    I've read your opening post and you seem so intelligent on the matters of Arnie Kander. I cannot effectively take part in this blog...except to post the occasional joke...........

    [​IMG]
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,981
    Likes Received:
    3,928
    Location:
    Michigan
    Arnie: "This guy has All-Star caliber until we get up to this level right here.....the heart."
     
  6. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,950
    Likes Received:
    1,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    One thing Sullinger should do if he gets drafted by the Pistons, is to make sure he puts the long leg up on the wall when Arnie does that test.
     
    BallDon'tLie and coynejeremy like this.
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,126
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Very insightful post Slip.
    This poses a classic draft question: Do you take a player with "basketball ability" over a player with "athletic ability"? (or vice versa)
    Which ability is easier to improve?
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,743
    Likes Received:
    3,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Why is Darko wearing 2 pairs of shorts and straining under 2.5 lb senior mall weights?
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,076
    Likes Received:
    1,184
    Gender:
    Male
    One pair is for his enormous potential...
     
    linwood likes this.
  10. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    262
    My eyes! :darkoalert:

    Seriously though, I'd be interested to see what Sullinger and everyone else's stock look like after the combine. Got a feeling some GM will reach for "potential" like they do every year.
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,126
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Arnie is one of the few dudes that I know that can rock the 'stash & fanny pack and somehow pull it off.
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Rumor has it that he gave Tay that famous piece of luggage for Christmas because it puts less strain on his #4 and #5 lumbar vertebrate.

    Now the fanny pack is designed to hold 3 frozen bananas.......
     
  13. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    809
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Sheed always wore his training shorts under his game shorts. Maybe he was trying to copy him?
     
  14. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    357
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argentina
    I rather take Henson over Sullinger. We really need an athlethic guy.

    What kind of test is that?
     
  15. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,013
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    Vienna
    do you have any material on that? I have a feeling that I suffer from the same hip problem!
     
  16. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Go to a Chiropractor. They can take an x-ray and determine a course of action. I wear a 5mm lift in my left shoe as my leg was shorter. Does wonders for comfort.
     
    Slippy likes this.
  17. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,950
    Likes Received:
    1,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    It goes back to when Jonas first came to the Pistons. Arnie tested him for athleticism and Jonas scored particularly well on a test to see how far he could put his leg up a wall. The details are cloudy and it has become a recurring forum joke when new hires are discussed.
     
    S.J. likes this.
  18. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    861
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Like Nemo said, a chiropractor should have 2 scales side by side to get the weight distribution and also an xray. Most times they can see it without machines. there are other things as well that are harder to get advice on: some of it has to do with core strength and posture. Tai chi and qi gong can help with the stabilizer muscles and your posture. Also, some muscles shorten and other muscles compensate if you do a lot of sitting or even focus on developing muscles out of proportion of the other.
     

Share This Page