Dream Team 60s/70s vs Dream Team 80s/90s

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pistonsfan, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    Alright, I agree that this is silly, but I can't take anymore.

    This kind of falls into the catagory of what have I seen you do lately...

    MowtownPride, do you really think Shaq could guard Wilt in his prime? How many times did Wilt break 50pts? And don't forget that Russell is the reason that the NBA started keeping stats on blocked shots.

    How many 50 pt games does Shaq have? How may blocks?

    And to quote a hall of fame coach, on "hack-a-Shaq", "teams did it everygame against Wilt too.... it just didn't rhyme."
  2. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    A Shaq in his prime would definitely have a shot at guarding Wilt. He doesn't shut him down but he slows him down. Can't say the same the other way around.

    Wilt dominated his era, no doubt. If Shaq was in that era he would have really demolished all of those tight shorts wearing inferior sized dudes...probably more so than Wilt. 320 pounds of agility running to the basket...unstoppable.

    Russell is the reason they started tracking blocked shots, but come on, how effective would his shot blocking be against Shaq? I don't even think this comparison is close. Shaq is one of the reasons they started to enforce a time limit in the paint. No doubt Commissioner Stern was sick of seeing the rest of the centers in the league look like they just went 13 rounds with George Foreman after a game with Shaq.

    Oh, and there is nothing that can be said about the free throws except that they would both foul out quickly if that was their strategy (just like every other center this decade has done).

    I see what you guys are trying to sell, but I'm too smart to buy it. For all Shaq's quirks, he is as advertised....the most dominant big man ever. Bill Russell will even tell you that.
  3. pistonsfan

    pistonsfan First Round Draft Pick

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    Motown:

    I don't think how much a person weighs has anything to do with how he is as a basketball player. You seem to be confusing weight with dominance.
    Weren't you the one who made the case for Hakeem? By how much did Shaq outweigh Hakeem? and who won that matchup?

    Anyhow, check what nba.com says regarding Wilt's weight

    http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html

    A track and field star in high school and college, Chamberlain stood 7-1 and was listed at 275 pounds, though he filled out and added more muscle as his career progressed and eventually played at over 300 pounds.
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    LOL @ basketbill's avatar :laugh: You guys are killing me.

    Micro, we need to add a little smiley guy in a white coat dragging off another smiley guy. I'd use that one a lot. lol.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Moving to "NBA Stuff" forum.
  6. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    pistonsfan, I read your original post just fine the first time. But the Jabbar of the 60s and 70s WAS the "Dream Team" Jabbar. He started in the 60s, and peaked in the 70s. The only real reason to put him on the 80s-90s team is to keep the game from becoming a truly grotesque mismatch. Ah, but why should such a superior group of athletes need to stoop to that?

    If we're playing by those rules, why can't I insist that the newer team has the post-HIV Magic or Jordan his first year back after baseball?

    And maybe all the Shaq worshippers can explain why this incredibly dominant force has never ONCE led the league in rebounding or blocked shots ... while a Pistons player remarkably similar to Bill Russell (except shorter) has done both.

    Well, I can tell you but I don't expect to convince you.

    I actually concede that Jordan would be a problem against anybody. But Shaq? He couldn't stop Wilt, he couldn't outrebound Russell, and Thurmond (a nice choice, pistonfan, seriously) would be a nasty help-out flyswatter. And the heavier-is-better crowd haven't defined what kind of game would be played -- today's, or a 1960s track meet without Shaq rules and unlimited dunking rights. He would not rule such a game.

    Would the old-timers as selected win? I doubt it, though they probably would if Jabbar was where he belongs. But I am positive that Shaq would not be the dominant force in such a game.
  7. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Shaq versus Hakeem in the playoffs wasn't Shaq in his prime. It was only his second year in the league!

    Shaq in his prime versus Hakeem is his prime. Advantage Shaq.

    The Wilt 300 pound quote...I honestly wasn't aware of that. The question is how well did he play at that weight.

    Oh and about the weight. I don't think anyone has played as fluid as Shaq at 300+. Remember early in his career when he was leading the fast break? Incredible. We're not talking about a big, slow piece of mass here. Would you agree that 300+ and quickness is a rare combination for any player in the history of this league?
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Lanierfan, so since Shaq hasn't lead the league in rebounding and block shots he wasn't dominant. I disagree. And as much as I love Ben Wallace, I think that the relevance of your comment is further challenged as it would mean that Ben is more dominant or superior to Shaq. We know thats not the case.

    Funny thing is that Shaq isn't by far one of my favorite players(although I'm now apparantly a disciple of the house of Shaq-Fu)...I'm just able to give props where props are due. A Shaq in his prime is virtually indefensible. Most NBA historians and former players including Russell will attest to his dominance. How come you can't see it? A game where Shaq does not garner the attention on defense is a game I haven't seen yet. I will again state that the level of athleticism during Shaq's era was far superior to that of Wilt's, Russell's and Thurman's. Anyone who can't see that is obviously in denial and is probably the guy at the park wearing a fro, tight shorts, goggles, knee pads and a tee-shirt that says "That 70's show". :)

    Basketbills you are a nut! LMAO!
  9. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    When did Bill Russell ever play against Shaq?

    The “Young, fluid” Shaq that I remember “leading the break”, hasn’t been seen since he was part of a 1-2 punch with Penny Hardaway. Also, I remember that same “young fluid” Shaq not dribbling in the lane, because he would get stripped. Think I’m kidding? His first 4 years in the league he averaged 2.995 Turnovers Per Game. He’s actually averaged 3.40 Turnovers Per Game for his career.

    Now, this highly talented big man, charges over smaller defenders with his backside, dribbles twice, and amazes us all with his incredible verticle leap by dunking.

    And this giant specimen of game changing basketball godliness has, for his career, averaged only 2.8 Assists Per Game. Wow! Double teaming him must really be a bad idea, because he could just pass it out to… oh, he apparently doesn’t really do that very much. He’s also averaging a whopping .68 Steals Per Game.

    Okay, let’s look at what Wilt did… wait, let’s just look at some of his records.
    (From hoophall.com)

    Take a peak at the annual NBA Guide, and Wilt Chamberlain completely dominates the listings. In fact, his name appears in regular season records in excess of 70 times. In 1962, the year Chamberlain scored his 100 points, he also led the scoring with a 50.4 per game average. He owns the next three highest seasonal averages at 44.8 ppg, 38.4 PPG and 37.6 PPG The next closest? Michael Jordan with 37.1 in the 1986-87 season.

    Most consecutive years leading league in scoring — 7 (1959-66)
    Most points, season — 4,029 (1961-62)
    Highest average, points per game — 50.4 PPG (1961-62)
    Most points, rookie, season — 2,707 (1959-60)
    Most points, game — 100 (March 2, 1962); 78 (Dec. 8, 1961); 73 (Jan. 13, 1962)
    Most points, rookie, game — 58 (Jan. 25, 1960)
    Most games, 50 or more points, career — 118
    Most games, 50 or more points, season — 45 (1961-62); 30 (1962-63)
    Most consecutive games, 50 or more points — 7 (Dec. 16-29, 1961)
    Most games, 40 or more points, career — 271
    Most games, 40 or more points, season — 63 (1961-62); 52 (1962-63)
    Most consecutive games, 40 or more points — 14 (Dec. 8 - 30, 1961)

    WOW! Impressive huh?

    I think a young, healthy Shaq would be posterized by a young, healthy Wilt. But don’t take my word for it, let’s compare career stats:

    SHAQ WILT Category
    12.0 22.9 RPG
    2.8 4.4 APG
    26.7 30.1 PPG

    Well, if I can’t convince you… and the stats can be misconstrued…

    "As I grew up, Wilt the Stilt was the player. Just the things he was able to do. I guess one year they told him he couldn't make as much money as he wanted because he couldn't pass the ball, so he went out and led the league in assists. Watching Wilt, you always kind of got the idea he was just playing with people. That he was on cruise control and still 10 times better than anybody else that was playing at that time."
    -- Denver Nuggets coach Dan Issel


    "He was the NBA. He was the guy on the top. Wilt was the guy you talked about -- he and Bill Russell. He was the most dominating center -- the best center to ever play in the NBA."
    -- Former NBA center and Bulls coach Johnny "Red" Kerr, who played part of one season in Philly with Wilt and against him for six-plus years


    "I spent 12 years in his armpits, and I always carried that 100-point game on my shoulders. After I got my third foul, I said to one of the officials, Willy Smith, `Why don't you just give him 100 points and we'll all go home?' Well, we did."
    -- Darrall Imhoff, who as a 6-foot-10 rookie center for the Knicks, guarded Chamberlain during his 100-point game


    "It's a shock to all of us in the basketball community. This is a guy whose impact changed the rules of the game ... he changed the interior part of our basketball game."
    -- Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson
  10. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    Here is some more food for thought...

    And if you don't feel like reading the whole thing, here is a highlight:

    Years ago, teams could pass the ball over the backboard or take a running start when attempting a foul shot. The former was outlawed because Chamberlain would use the backboard as a screen, cherry-picking passes and converting them into layups; the latter was banned after Chamberlain took a running start, leapt from the foul line and dunked the ball.


    Yes, Chamberlain dunked foul shots.


    And that was long before Julius Erving or Brent Barry did it (while stepping on the line in the process) in exhibitions.

    Ever seen Shaq get his big butt off the ground at the charity stripe for a dunk?
  11. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    And one more thing:

    When the heck did Larry Bird become a PF?
  12. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I like this. You made alot of good points.

    I'll adress them as best I can.

    The Bill Russell comment was based on an interview I saw with Russell where he said that he thought at the end of Shaq's career he will probably be considered the best center ever.

    All of Wilt's stats are impressive, but I believe it was against competition that was not as dominant as today. The average size of an NBA player was much smaller back then. I venture to say that there were no KG sized small forwards to be seen. Today's NBA is bigger, faster, stronger...they just can't shoot anymore. :) Simply put, I think that Shaq's numbers would be more inflated playing in that era.

    In all fairness, I don't think Shaq's metamorphis into BIG Shaq happen until he won his first/second championship. That was much longer than the 2 year period you quoted. I do remember the turnovers where he tried to dribble the ball too much early on. Only later in his career has his passing improved. So Shaq averaged about 3 assists per game and Wilt average about 4 and a half. A difference of 1 1/2 assists is not really alot is it?

    Now, the dunking free throw shots! Dayyyyyyyummmm! That's incredible! I need to see some footage of that. Very impressive. Wilt is not one of the top 50 of all-time for no reason.

    I can grab quotes for you as well testifying Shaq's greatness but I will pass....for now. (unless you REALLY want me to. :) ) I will say that given the evidence provided, the difference between the two is not as clear cut as I thought...but I still feel that a Shaq in his prime is a more difficult matchup for opponents than a Wilt. I think there are plenty of people that have come around since Wilt's era that would have given Wilt issues. I don't think they've made a person that can defend Shaq effectively yet.
  13. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Oh, why not...

    I guess I just like to debate. :)

    Here are some articles/links of a couple people who support my opinions:

    Elliot Kalb, a fanatic statisican, in his book Who's Better, Who's Best? in Basketball ranks Shaq perhaps the greatest ever. (I disagree with that by the way..my pick is Jordan)

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/writers/jack_mccallum/11/12/nba_insider/

    Reggie Theus on the Wilt versus Shaq debate:

    "Wilt's stats are overwhelming. But what's fishy is how he could have been so dominant statistically, yet win only two titles. Was the NBA weaker back then? If not, there's no excuse for Chamberlain not having won more. His stats are awesome--but how tainted are they?
    In a strict numbers sense, there's no way O'Neal--or any player in the history of the NBA--can measure up to Chamberlain. But what we have here is a battle of stats vs. skills."

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCJ/is_3_29/ai_80847876

    He goes on to say that it is very close, but Shaq's championships will ultimately be the tiebreaker.
  14. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, I think this is a lot like a Fascist and a Communist arguing until they are blue in the face about which has the better plan for government. No one will change their opinion.

    I'll take the fact that you now have more repsect for the Stilt as a small victory. Honestly, no amount of info from any source could make me think Shaq is anything more than a very, very large basketball player, and hence has stats to support that of a very, very large basketball player.

    The saddest thing about Shaq, IMO, is if he would have had a decent coach, or some decent competition, when he was growing into that huge frame, he may actually have some skills. Instead he simply bumps, and uses his size. It took the NBA, and a lot of embarassing situations, before he actually developed some skills.

    And lets remember that while Wilt was playing, he was playing against the most dominant team in the history of the NBA... Aurbach's Celtics, with Bill Russell.

    Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
  15. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I'll accept that. ...and now my parting shot.

    The nba has had its share of huge players. George Muresean was huge. But size doesn't win you championships alone, there must be talent and the ability to use that talent effectively. Shaq has done so. He is a winner and noone can take that away from him. Oh, and Shaq played during in era when some of the best centers ever were active: Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson, Mourning, and Smitz (Reaching a bit. :) ).
  16. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Hey everyone. This is my first post.

    Anyway, this kind of topic is always interesting to discuss. My take: the oldtimers don't get nearly enough respect.

    No way. I think the old guys take it, although it definitely goes 6 or 7. No answer for Jordan? Are you kidding me? What about Oscar? As Nate Thurmond put it:

    Oscar averaged a triple double (30-10-10) for the first five or six years of his career. Yeah, he couldn't dunk it from the free-throw line, but if you're talking about shooting, passing, handling, rebounding, orchestrating the offense -- Oscar has the edge on Jordan. On defense I say they come out about even, probably, but the oldtimers certainly do have an answer for Jordan. And I haven't even mentioned West, or Baylor, each of whom could score as well as anyone this side of Wilt himself.

    As for Shaq...

    I'm confused -- what about Wilt? Wilt was no lightweight, and if even a quarter of the stories I've read about him are true, he was the strongest player ever to play in the NBA.

    To say that the athleticism is "far superior" is an egregious exaggeration. I believe you mentioned Jesse Owens and Carl Lewis. Jesse Owens once held the world record in the 100m at 10.2 s. Carl Lewis also held the record, at 9.86 s. The 100m is as pure a measure of athleticism as any, and here we can see a 3% improvement. Not overwhelming, is it?

    In any case, there's a lot more to basketball than athletic ability. The oldtimers can all shoot for one thing, but more than that, most of these guys had a high "basketball IQ". I don't think it's a coincidence that the most intelligent team of all time is usually considered to be the early 70s Knicks. They all knew what to do and where to be; they worked in concert as a team at all times, and they could knock down 20-footers in their sleep. Couple that with the ridiculous talents of guys like Oscar, Russell, and Wilt, and you have players that would dominate in this era as much as they did in their own.

    Not surprisingly, I don't agree. Consider Russell versus Wilt. Russell was listed at 220 lbs, and he played Wilt -- who outweighed him by 75 lbs once he'd filled in a bit -- as well as anyone; he certainly played him better than I think Shaq would have. Russell's speed, stamina, hops, timing, and overall skill level were all beyond reproach, and certainly superior to Shaq in every instance; his defense, rebounding and shotblocking are as good as the NBA has seen at the center position.

    As for Wilt versus Shaq, I think it's pretty one-sided, actually. The Diesel may slow down the Dipper a little bit, but if you watch ESPN Classic as much as you say you do, you'll know that Wilt -- who was a track-and-field standout in college -- was fast both up and down the floor as well as laterally. Honestly, I think Wilt not only slows Shaq, I think that -- properly motivated -- he shuts him down.

    (You'll note my caveat; I'll admit that Wilt didn't always play with an edge, but when he did -- like in 1967, which was after he had put on weight by the way -- his team was unbeatable. The '67 76ers were the only team to beat the Russell Celtics when Russell was healthy, and to this day, I haven't seen anyone that I think could take that team in a best-of-seven.)

    A couple of other points:

    Re: fouling out -- Wilt never fouled out of a game. I don't think playing Shaq would have changed that. Conversely, Wilt was more than fast enough to be able to get good position on Shaq, and he would have drawn several offensive fouls. He was also possibly the only player in the history of the game strong enough to hold position on Shaq, and without a skyhook, Shaq would definitely be susceptible to having his shot blocked.

    Re: Hakeem vs. Shaq -- when they met in the Finals, Shaq was no rookie, or even a sophomore; it was his third year in the league. In any case, put the '95 Dream versus the '00 Diesel and I still think Olajuwon wins it. He had too many moves in the post, his shot was too good, his defense much better than Shaq's ever was.

    Ummm, there's Russell of course, but also Kareem, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Jerry Lucas....

    Three points:

    1. In terms of percentages, that's a 50% increase, so I do think it's signficant.

    2. It's widely acknowledged that assists were credited more infrequently in those days than they are today.

    3. When he put his mind to it, Wilt actually led the league in assists. No one will ever convince me that Shaq is a good enough passer to do that if his soul depended on it -- and I do think he's an excellent passer by the way.

    As should be obvious by now, I do think both Russell and Wilt, as well as Thurmond, would have been able to slow Shaq down to varying degrees. But I don't think Shaq could have played Wilt as well as Russell did.

    This quote surprised me a little, because there certainly is an excuse -- Russell's Celtics were the most dominating dynasty the game has ever seen. No one man can win a championship by himself; if he could, then both Wilt (37-27 as a rookie, 30-23 lifetime, 50ppg in a season, 100 in a game, 55 rebounds in a game, led the league in assists, probably averaged double digit shotblocks etc etc) and Oscar (30-10-10 for five or six seasons, 26.5-9.5-7.5 career) would have many more championships than they do. When they had the right teams they won, and convincingly ('67 76ers are the best team ever, '72 Lakers won 33 consecutively, '71 Bucks weren't challenged by anybody).

    Anyway, if you don't agree that's cool, but I wanted to give the oldtimers some love. (Oh, and the sixth men for the oldtimers should be Havlicek and Cunningham -- they would run anyone -- except for maybe Rip :) -- into the ground!)

    One quick thing about Wilt vs. Shaq: in addition to having a speed advantage, Wilt would also be able to wear Shaq down with his superior stamina. Even in his prime, Shaq would get tired if he played too many minutes. Conversely, Wilt once averaged over 48mpg in a season, and something like 46mpg for his career! (Russell and Oscar also averaged more than 42mpg, which is far more than anyone else in history; I think Elvin Hayes is next on the list, with a little over 38 mpg.)

    Instead of Maravich, who didn't play any defense, the oldtimers would definitely benefit from having Hal Greer.

    Anyway, I just remembered Bob Pettit; I definitely think he should be backing up Russell at the 4. Awesome scorer (over 26 for his career), one of the best rebounders ever (over 16 for his career), a fierce defender, and overall a great competitor (he was the leader of a Hawks team that went to the finals four times in five years, winning one of them, and losing the rest to -- who else? -- the Celts).
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Welcome to the forum 1989.

    Good quality first post! :thumb:

    You make alot of good points.

    Are you suggesting that Oscar was a better player than Jordan? Sorry noone in the history of the game matches Jordan in the 4th quarter. I won't turn this discussion into an Oscar vs Jordan debate..we could be here forever. :)

    I will admit ignorance on this point. Wilt is listed by most at a playing weight of 275 pounds giving Shaq a 50 pound advantage. I think that is a sizeable difference. In comparision, Shawn Bradly was listed at 275 pounds. I really don't know how long Wilt played at the 300 pound barrior and how many times he played against Russell at that weight. All I know is that Shaq has played at that weight for the duration of his career and performed well with championships to back it up.

    I was just illustrating that point to show that over time humans evolve to be faster..stronger. This is why records break every year. In 1912 the world record was 10.6. Today the world record is 9.77. Almost close to the second mark in improvement. Having run track I can tell you that shaving 10ths of a second off a time is a big deal. The disparity betwen someone running a 10.2 versus a 9.77 is pretty significant although it doesn't look like it from a pure numbers game. Today's athlete is much bigger, stronger and faster. Garnett would easily be a center in Wilt's time.

    Completely agree with this point except about dominating in this era as well. As more Lebrons and Amares enter the league the gap between the eras will become more pronounced. Really this is a difficult debate to have because it is really hard to determine if these players basketball IQs were enough to curve the difference in raw athletic talent. At what point does b-ball IQ not play as much of a factor? By the way what percentage of players in the league back then do you think would actually have a shot at making an NBA team now. I don't think it is that high.

    No doubt that Russell was a superior defensive player.

    Couldn't disagree with you more. Shaq deep in the post is indefensible. Wilt guards Shaq in the post without any help, he fouls out.

    I disagree. I think you underestimate what Shaq has added to his game. It's not just dunks anymore. Shaq definitely cannot defend Olajuwan in his prime. Olajuwan was just too crafty. I still think it comes down to foul trouble. Advantage Shaq.

    All good points. I agree with you.

    After bangin' with Shaq for a full game, I don't see speed playing as much of a factor. Having Shaq lean on you for 40+mins will knock the wind out of anyone.
  18. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    :D Yes indeed! I'm also prepared to leave it at that lest we end up sacrificing our weekends hashing this out....

    That's fair; I just think that -- unlike track and field -- basketball is much more than simply how fast you can run and how high you can jump. Anyway, I won't belabour the point. (And Garnett should be playing center now in my opinion; he spends way too much time out on the wing....)

    That is the pertinent question isn't it? :) We'll never resolve it, but speaking for myself, if I was a GM I would always go for a smart guy with average NBA talent (e.g. Luke Walton, Shane Battier) than a remarkable athlete that is either incapable or unwilling to understand the game (e.g. Tim Thomas, Darius Miles).

    You may be right, if we're talking about the "average" NBA player from that era. Obviously, the guys we've been talking about are hardly average.

    Fair enough, but I think you underrate the Dipper's defense, and also his speed and strength. I think he prevents Shaq from getting that kind of position by beating him to the spot, and once there, I think he's strong enough to hold the position. Even if Shaq gets good position, I think Wilt has a better chance of blocking Shaq's shot than anyone I can think of. Also keep in mind that Shaq is going to have to expend a great deal of energy keeping up with the most potent offensive force in the history of the game at the other end of the court, and Shaq definitely wears down faster than Wilt does, who could seemingly play all night. I guess we'll never know, but I respect your opinion and I'll leave it at that.

    Hmm, if I sounded down on Shaq that wasn't really my intent. I definitely think Shaq is much more than just dunks and I do respect him as a player. As you say, if it does come down to fouls, then Shaq has the advantage, but I guess this is one instance where I think Hakeem is smart enough to stay out of trouble, and at the other end, we agree that Hakeem can certainly give as good as he gets. It's just that I feel Hakeem doesn't get enough respect sometimes; I still feel that his '95 playoff performance is the best I've seen at the center position since I started following the league circa 1987.

    Let me be clear about one thing though: I do think Shaq is a great player. I think he and Hakeem are the best centers of the past twenty years -- and I'm including Tim Duncan as a center in that assessment.

    (Although as an aside, I think Arvydas Sabonis might have been as good as either of them, but unfortunately we didn't get to see him in the L until long after his prime; even then, he was great, and by far the best passer at the 5 since Bill Walton.)

    (Aside #2: one matchup that I always felt would have been interesting is Shaq versus the Mountain Man, Mark Eaton. That would have been great! Eaton had so much size and strength -- and a height advantage -- it's too bad they didn't, as far as I can recall, get a chance to play one another.)

    :D No question about that. Anyway, I think I explained my counter-arguments to this (Wilt's stamina, strength, defense, offense) above.

    Thanks for your great reply! :)
  19. pistonsfan

    pistonsfan First Round Draft Pick

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    Tall Tales

    Motown:

    You need to read this book by Terry Pluto. It's called "Tall Tales" to undersatnd some of Wilt's exploits and older NBA players like Baylor, Oscar and Thurmond.

    It is a great read. All it is quotes by various NBA people from 50s 60s to today's players. It's a very good book and I highly recommend it.
  20. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Are we victims of culture shock?

    a lot of yall out there are children of the espn generation and only know about what you see on highlights, sooooooooo as a 40-somethin bball freak from way back, here is how I see it:
    pf- Bill Russell vs. anybody..Bird, Malone, whoever...Bird could not get off a shot on Bill or shoot over his long arms. Remember the trouble he had when Rodman and Salley came along? And against Msu in the final? Russell was also 'damn mean"....adv:Russell

    sf- Elgin Baylor vs. Dr J, Barkley, and real "small fwds..meaning 6'7" or smaller! Elgin would eat them alive, but I believe Barkley was the greatest ever. He was a frieght train ...the edge- Barkley, cuz of his passing ability

    c-Chamberlain or Lew vs. Shaq or Kareem(funny)...whoever didnt see Wilt ,know this: He was triple everything.Including blocks,steals andthe ladies!! Shaq couldnt get 30 on Ben wallace, what he s'posed to do on Wilt? Wilt would have more trouble with Akeem or Ewing, who are more mobile....Lew Alcindor vs. Kareem- the New York Kareem, Lew Alcindor, was a jump shooting, fast breaking, sky hooking machine! Kareem became a docile, skyhooking robot. Take the old 'playa'...Overall , take WILT

    sg- Jordan.....NUFF SAID(Ode to Stan Lee, real oldskoolers know)

    pg- Bob Cousy vs. Isiah....Even if i allow my love for Magic to qualify as a point, Cousy would let nobody outfierce him, even the king of fierce, Zeke. But the edge would still go to the present day guards.

    My main point is that anybody predicting a sweep doesnt know that back in the day, we were 'nasty as dirt"! Cowboys from the west. Gringos. Russell, West, Sloan,Wilt, Clyde, Pearl,Elgin, Russ, Lucas, those guys would slam Jordan to the ground b4 he posterized them.

    When i played my younger family folks or teenage punks up to 15, I can get behind 14-8 and they have the ball. But they werent getting that last shot. That's how the 60's were: I'd take OldSkool in 7!!!!

    My bruddahs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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