Dressing the dogs..

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Oct 31, 2005.

  1. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    I posted this in another forum but couldn't raise a ghost. Tell me what you think.

    I personally think the whole dress code issue is a whole lotta something over nothing. I don't see any race issue involved and this my reasoning.

    When the kids are coming out'a school and headed for the draft party, when they're looking for their initial payday, number call and team pick-up, they don't dress like AI.

    When their names get called by Stern and they head up to the podium to get their first teams cap, they don't dress like AI.

    They get that it's a business and they there's a protocol involved. Their families get it. Their friends get it. I don't think there's anyone out in "TV land" saying, they've sold themselves out when they see them in those new suits getting ready to collect that first set of checks.


    So if the players understand that presentation counts when they're waiting to be counted, how does it become racism after they're signed and are having the checks electronically dropped in their bank accounts? What changed to make a race issue?

    If the same cats aren't dressing like AI on draft day, if they aren't dressing like AI when they're making the rounds in pre-draft workouts, isn't it just a standard "dress to look my best and make a good impression" issue?
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's the same BS argument that wearing chains and whatnot is a sign of "making it" or "status". If you are in the NBA, you have made it. You don't need to dress a particular way to garner respect at the "street" level. If one is worried about "cred", their priorities are seriously jacked up.

    It's juvenile to call this rascist, and even more so to persist in fighting a code of dress, conduct, what have you. These guys have jobs, there are standards. If they don't like it, they can always go play And1.
  3. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree 100% Micro.

    I can't stand racism of any kind, but I also can't stand the "racism" card being played all the time either.

    Having a dress code is not racist. Not allowing High Schoolers into the NBA is not racist. These are business decisions. Racism is wrong, but so is calling everything you don't agree with Racism.

    Too many lives have been altered or worse, ended, because of racism. That word should be used very carefully and sparingly. It should not be thrown around lightly. It should not be used when you boss tells you that you have to wear dress pants to work.
  4. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Jammer / Micro

    :amen:

    I rest my case.
  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Couldn't agree more

    ...although, personally, I will miss the post game pimp parade. Hopefully some of these guys realize that they have enough money to make a huge fashion statement without having to wear a $100,000 chain. (they can wear a $100,000 watch, for example)
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The dress code doesn't bother me either way, just as the players' clothes didn't bother me either way. I don't remember who posted it, but I remember seeing a picture of Rip and Chauncey arriving to a game walking side by side. Chauncey had a nice looking suit on and Rip was wearing won of his Rip City jerseys with a bandana. Both looked "fashionable" to me, just sporting 2 different looks.

    I don't have a problem with Sten imposing a dress code and I don't have a problem with the way players curently dress. I do have a problem with the dress code being called racist.

    I can empathize with both points of view. Stern wants to cleam up the NBA's image, especially after what happened at the palace last year. The players don't want to all of a sudden be told what to wear as grown men.

    In my opinion, a good compromise would be to institute the dress code at formal post game interviews (the ones at the podium, not the ones where the hordes of reporters are talking to the players while their half naked at their lockers), and let the players wear whatever they want rest of the time. On the planes, in the hotels, coming and going from either to the arenas.
  7. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Sounds good to me. I think the whole thing is really a non-issue. I agree with the whole racism thing being overblown as well. The other day Drew Sharpe wrote some article about the dress code, and standing up for your beliefs, and Rosa Parks. Unbelievable.
  8. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You can't be serious. Have people losted touch with history so much that Rosa Parks is being brought up in a dres code discusion. They players need to get back to the real world if its possible. If I show up to work in a Jersey my boss would send me home because the clients would just laugh at me. As long as I am on the company dime, I do as I am told. Last time I checked, in the NBA it is COMPANY time when the TV is rolling--so theres really nothing the players can do but put on a suit, smile, and cash the check. One of the biggest players I am upset about is Sheed. I know he has always been an individual, so having someone tell him what to do maybe "annoying" (thats about as strong of a word a forced dress code should get), but he is also the guy who said he would "do anything" as long as they CTC. Where CTC = cut the check. So basically, he better learn to tie. Its just hypocritical to have no opinion or pride about some stuff, then get indignant for the same type of thing.
  9. LA Sam

    LA Sam Second Round Draft Pick

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    Of course it's about race

    This is a race move plain and simple. You guys don't see it, because you're asking the wrong question. We already understand it's about race, because what they wear doesn't offend African Americans and most young kids. Who does it offend? I rest my case.

    The real question is not if it has anything to do with race, because it does. The real question is does it make sense, and the answer to that is of course it does.

    Look, I do strange stuff for customers all the time. Some have horrid taste, annoy the hell out of you on a regular basis, and blame you for stuff they do wrong. But the day you tell them to kiss off, is the day you draw your last check.

    Their sponsors are almost all mainstream, and the majority of their fans are the same. It's a very small price to pay to collect those massive checks.

    But if you missed the racial component of this one, I hope you can catch the next solar eclipse.
  10. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Sorry Sam

    Still not buying it.

    Your argument is that it's about race because the majority of players in the NBA are black. Because this new rule affects more blacks than whites due to that mix. You're assuming all the white guys are dressing up already? You're assuming all the black guys dress like AI? No blacks are dressing in business casual already?

    That's racist thinking in and of itself.

    Based on that logic every rule made anywhere has to also be about and directed at whatever the largest class of audience is made up of - rather than the portion of the audience simply deferring to the rule.

    The point I made was that if everyone dresses up on the day they're drafted, regardless of their skin color, they are already acknowleding that it matters. That presentation counts and that it's a business. It's a business decision they make when tying that tie before heading up to the podium.

    So what changes after that? Crying that the sky is falling and actualy having it fall on your head are two completely different things.

    If its your agrument that Stern wants to change the image to sell more tickets is valid, which it is. Then you must feel insulted that he is saying we are all "alchoholics" when he remands that all arenas serve cheap watered down 3.2 beer. He did that to lessen drunken foolishness, creating a less hostile atmosphere for familys so that he could sell more tickets too.

    Man I hate that watered down swill.

    It's easy to pick on whatever it is that flips your switch and claim you're being discriminated against. But it doesn't mean you are.

    I could buy your other argument about who the dressing up or down bothers most if I saw the survey on it. I go to games and the actual majority of fans with butt on pine are of the lighter skin persuasion. They're white. A whole lotta them in the corporate suites. They aren't bothered either way cause the only "suit" they actually witness is shorts, jerseys and ball shoes. I don't see a lessening or changing in the percentage of folk actually paying for the tickets and attending the games.

    Everyday when I'm out doing anything work related, I wear work related attire.

    Sometimes good business is just good business and bad business is just bad business. It's about the business.
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    Ai

    I already posted this in another thread.

    When AI said something like the NBA should re-emburse him for clothing expenses they lost me.
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I never saw the lack of attendence due to what the players were wearing... it has everything to do with winning basketball games...
    Those same corporate stiffs are sitting in their court side seats high fiving every improperly dressed cat that is willing to pay attention to them.

    Just win baby... the seats will fill and the sponsors will get their share.

    You mean there's different colored players?... damn... I'll have to start paying more attention next time.
  13. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Slippery slope argument

    NBA players being forced to conform to a dress code is a non issue? How do you think Afghan women feel about having to wear Burkas to cover themselves up? And isn't it the same for NBA players to have to cover up their true identities with suits and ties?

    Once you head down this slippery slope, it's just a matter of time before Burkas become standard apparel in America and we are under the rule of zealots! Take a stand now before we head down that slippery slope.



    [​IMG]
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Sam just likes to stir the pot. He needs to work harder at it because these attempts are weak.
  15. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    La Sam

    The race issue is definetily there if you buy into the belief that Blacks like to wear jerseys and white people think jerseys have connotations of drugs and "ghetto" behavior. Is this true? maybe to a point. On the other hand, I believe the issue boils down to personal definition of what is acceptable levels of formality in dress and what situations these formalities need to be met. I think that it is generally accepted, no, I know it is accepted that ALL races know that a suit and tie represents the highest form of formal wear and a jersey somewhere in the wide realm of casual attire. Look at the draft, hall of fame presentations, weddings, etc. Did Sheed/AI get married in a Rip City Jersey? No, because their mothers would have strangled them. They knew as BLACK men that a wedding is a situation that demands formal attire. Therefore, the question becomes is NBA postgame activities a situation that needs formal attire? This is the only area of question. My personal opinion is that it sholdn't matter, and can be left to open determination, but I am not CTC. I think your problem is that Stern is making the Black men wear suits to appeal to White America who is watching the games. Obviously, nothing I say will make it a clear cut yes or no, but I think Stern is just trying to make the NBA appear more respectable--like a billion dollar CORPORATION should be. All he is trying to do is bridge the gap between normal corporation--the World he has to deal with as "CEO"--and street pick-up game with a 80 million dollar hustle--the World AI has to deal with. With all the money involved, I think the NBA-players included--need to start treating their "game" more as a profession than a pasttime.
  16. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yeah, that's exactly the same thing.

    While we're at it, we should boycott McDonalds, Burger King, UPS, all banks, lawyer, all sports teams (uniforms are a dress code after all), the police, EMS, the fire department, judges, doctors, Walmart (I think Saddam himself designed those blue vests), grocery stores, etc. etc. etc.

    Your "point" is rediculous and insensative.
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Funny, last year on TNT I watched Kenny and Charles argue about the way players dress after John T interviewed AI.
    Charles absolutely did not like the way players dress preferences had a negative effect on the kids watching.
    Kenny argued some BS about it being a new day in the hip hop era and that you can make it in this world wearing Phat Farm and Roc-A-Wear exclusively, " I Mean look at Russell Simmons and Dame Dash"
    Man I hit the roof, thinking Kenny has said one of the dumbest things I ever heard.
    In the world of movers and shakers you need to dress the part and look the part, the only exception is Sports and Entertainment, but only a few in a million beat those odds. As a black man who runs hoop clinics in neighborhoods all summer you try to stress to these kids that while they may love sports, GET AN EDUCATION, while they like rap music GET AN EDUCATION. For those of us that actually make it in this world by going and getting 100+ credit hours, interviewing, networking etc, we had to DRESS the part. In the real world you need to DRESS in business attire and the NBA was indeed doing it's part in trying to sway a mass of impressionable people from thinking in realistic terms. I swear I can't stand when you have relative die or get married and you have those cousins that spend a ton on jewelry, sneakers and throw back jersey's but don't own a decent suit to wear when they lay their grandmother to rest.

    I personally would love to see this whole country back to wearing a more polished line of dress attire, heck man I'm sick of seeing wrinkled khakis and too tight polo shirts in the office.
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Excellent post. Couldn't agree with you more.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Jammer,

    basketbills is the resident satirist. He could be in the Air Farce Troupe.

    Take 80% of what he says with a dose of irony.
  20. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Corporate Dweebdom

    Ok Micro that was a bit over the top?

    Here is what I wrote in the other forum. I understand KGreg's point...he likes to see folks dress nicely. Well that's fine but I don't want to dress to have to impress anyone if I don't have to and NBA players don't have to...

    .... just because you are an easily replaced corporate Dweeb doesn't mean you should assume NBA players are the same. These players are the best in the world at what they do and if they made a stand David Stern would do away with the dress code. The players have the power not David Stern. So why don't a few of them stand up against this stupid dress code??

    Stand up for your own identity. If you are forced to act a certain way and conform to the Dilbert restrictions your company sets forth...you can't react because you'd lose your job. NBA players aren't low life losers who cotton to the whims of others like you are apparently. Stupid rule.


    And this was in response to a guy at the other forum who was making some racially insensitive remarks, so take it with a grain of salt.

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