Dumars Honeymoon

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Jun 18, 2006.

  1. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    288
    This used to be sac-religious to bring this up. How many free-passes can Dumars get? He used to wow us with deals and new aquisitions but what has be done the past 2 seasons? His coaching selection was questionable. We came back with basically the same team minus Arroyo this past post-season. His draft record is not great. A lot of chatter with Jordon buying the Cats GM job circles around his selection of Kwame Brown and yet Dumars picked a bigger bust in Darko, deals him along with our backup point for a guy that never played and a pick that may not even be lottery in 2 years and got a ton of praise for it.

    What happened to the magic? He used to find FA's and trade for guys that left us all amazed. What was so amazing about his last trade? It left us 2 guys short, it could not have waited until the summer? Darko's value was at an all-time low.

    Last summer - Dale Davis and Mo Evans were his answers to the 4th quarter fold last post-season? Did he think Maxiel was going to play? Okur to Prince to Maxiel. See the falloff?

    Is Dumars getting complacent with his success? Does it all originate from the top? Or am I being too harsh? Note - we do not have a 1st round pick this year because we traded it for Arroyo last year.
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    1
    He hasn't doen much, but many other GM's haven't either. I think Joe will do whatever he can to not let things end the way the bad boys run ended. I don't know what talent we could "steal". We got Rasheed without giving up too much because people questioned his character. I don't know of a guy that Joe can get without giving up too much. It's time for him to do something though.
  3. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    288
    In the last 2 seasons/1 summer we added Delfino, Arroyo, Davis, Maxiel, Evans, Delk in that order. Acker to me looks like an oversees player. Johnson may have some talent but with all this talk of parse mins at best for him next season I can see us eventually blowing it with him. No picks this year ( except for #60 ) and seeminly no real plan for improving the team this summer.
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    It's too early to judge last years draft....
    Can't really blame Joe on the Memo thing.
    I think Joe was being very careful not to break up a team that was a ship contender... I think he'll take a similar approach this summer while trying to add "another legit threat off the bench".

    However I don't think Joe will be as patient if some of the vets come out with the same fat cat syndrome.

    Still can't think of many GMs that could do a better job drafting late and trying to maintain an elite squad.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,895
    Likes Received:
    1,739
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    If Joe doesn't get "trading", he's not going to be able to hide behind the rep long. His record in FA and the draft is pretty average (maybe even poor).

    I like Joe the player, but that won't keep me from saying that he has struckout miserably two straight years.

    If the future of the Pistons is watching him have to duck under an organizational salary limit, while maintaining a team just competitive enough to fill the seats, that will suck. I'll be watching, but I won't be happy.
  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    189
    Joe didn't get it done last summer. We had the same problems this year with the offense and the defense was worse with the same holes getting larger. We brought in nobody who could stick Wade and it was a gimme that Miami stood in our way. Joe needs to step up as the window of time is not that long.
  7. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    San Diego
    Everyone wants to see the Pistons tearing it up in the finals this time of year. The way the last two seasons ended has been very frustrating. But don't forget what we have here. Joe D. came in with basically no experience, and turned a :P team into :first: in just four years. Does anyone realize how rare that is?

    I don't think Joe is complacent, I just think he is doing his best to work within a whole range of constraints. I can't think of anyone I would rather have running the team right now.
  8. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Free pass? What have Pistons fans given Joe Dumars that he hasn't earned 10 times over? Are those same fans so jaded that they can't accept a team that's merely one of the top 4 in the NBA? If so, it wouldn't bother me to see the bandwagon get a little lighter. Try rooting for 25 other teams and see what a "free pass" really is.

    Any fan who thinks it's all about waving a magic wand instead of patience and hard work misses the point. Joe will make moves, and they'll doubtless be criticized for lacking sizzle--just as his past moves were at the time, without benefit of hindsight. But things are going to have to be a whole lot worse before I start bleating about my God-given right to an NBA Finalist.
  9. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    McDyess? Can't count Delfino if you're not counting Dice. Delfino was actually signed 2 days before we signed McDyess.
  10. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    288
    Micro - thats my main point. Dumars has struckout for the past 2 seasons. For the ECF we came back with basically the same team as before. Even a little lighter minus a backup center and backup point.

    Lanierfan - we are not NBA finalists anymore. Almost did not get out of the 2nd round. The competition in the East is getting better so we must get better. Resting on the laurels of winning a title in 04 is only going to make us a 1 year wonder.

    Whats so hard about finding a 3rd guard who can play on both sides of the floor, a backup SF and somekind of a backup center with valid height who can bring in some energy? Riley reworked his team because they fell short by 5 mins in 05. We fell short by a quarter in 05 and an entire game in 06. In 05 Dumars main answer was Mo Evans.

    So maybe he believed in Delfino, Davis and Maxiel. Why did the coach not play them? If there was somekind of disconnect between the GM and coach then its the GM's fault. I understand that he does not want to micromanage the coach but they must have somekind of regular meetings? Perhaps Flip would have appreciated some guidance. How is Flip to know what Dumars vision is if he does not tell him? Or maybe he did and Flip did what he wanted to anyway. Who knows.
  11. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cebu City, Philippines
    I don't think Darko was or is a bust.

    He is performing well with the time he's given and he will be a decent player. He may not be Jermaine O'Neal but he will be decent. Averaging the blocks that he does just add some offense and boards and you have a player. JOE does not deserve that on his resume. Rodney White was a mistake, Cleaves but not Darko.

    There is an article on hoopshype that Ben may not be a lock to re-sign with us because he rubbed some people the wrong way with the blame game in the playoffs. I agree. He may not but it's because there is slowly a changing of philosophy here.

    If a move has to be made a sign-trade would be beneficial if he decides to leave. If he goes, I wonder how Rasheed would react without his regular frontcourt mate, and his proclamation of the greatest five he has played with. What happens to the chemistry?

    Delfino can play, I'd just like him have the time to do so. Play him Flip.

    Mo can go. He has hustle and hard work but he's taking time from developing players.

    Overall, JOE has to find someone to back us up on the bench. Someone to fill in Hunter or Delk's shoes as well as the 6 more fouls for Shaq that Cato was supposed to do so.

    And JOE should tell the coach to put some defense back in our game.
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,305
    Likes Received:
    695
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    To be fair, Joe had less room to maneuver coming into this season. The 2005 pistons pulled out some amazing wins on their march to the finals. So you don't want to make radical changes.
    I don't know how attractive this team is to a free agent that's not looking to bandwagon their way to a championship. You get squat for PT. You never get a bloated contract. What is there for a young athlete to look forward to here.

    The biggest mistake was not developing Darko. The second will be not developing Delfino. If anything, I think the most dramatic personnel change is going to be a new HC. December.
  13. jetscreamer

    jetscreamer First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dumars was convinced he could get by with a 7-man rotation. I'm not sure if TV timeouts or Brown's near miss in SA convinced him it was plausable. It certainly made the salary cap easier to manage to Mr. Davidson's liking I'm sure. However Joe was convinced homecourt was our problem. I believe the starters also told him we can do it. Their mystical group mentality. Well in the words of the immortal Mike Tyson "everyone has a plan until you hit them'. Well I think the Pistons are in need of a tune-up. So if trades have to be made I'm all for it. Washington beat us with regularity during the season if they had beaten The Witness (not sure how to use it in a sentence). Maybe they, The Pistons, would have been looking at a second round knockout. I don't think this team will do well unless they get younger (read lose some games) next year. Like Joe Dumars says it's all about the playoffs.

Share This Page