1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Dumars still has done nothing

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,946
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Trading Al Jefferson to Utah may have been an effort to accomodate Jefferson. It could be like Dumars trading Billups to Denver. It puts him in a good situation.

    Wolves trade Jefferson to Utah | StarTribune.com

     
  2. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,915
    Likes Received:
    3,119
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    For me, the most inexcusable mistake that Joe has made is muddying up the SG position with Rip and Ben. I don't know how it went down but Rip's contract along with the $$$ tied up in what amounts to a duplicate player in Ben Gordon is what threatens to hold back the rebuilding process.

    I gotta believe that when Joe signed Ben Gordon last Summer, he had a pending transaction in place to move Rip and that transaction fell through. I honestly don't believe that he anticipated having both of those guys on the roster at this point.

    I can forgive Dumards for a lot of things but that right there was some bad GMing right there.
     
  3. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Here is a FACT:
    Joe made an offer to Charlotte for Chandler. Now, while Chandler may not be a star, he would fill a need for the team as an athletic defensive-minded shot-blocking center. I don't knoe what Joe offered in exchange, but Bobcats preferred to get Dampier, Najera and Carroll from Dallas.
    Now, is it Joe doing nothing or is it that things are not as easy as wishful thinking?
     
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,915
    Likes Received:
    3,119
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Any time you get a chance to acquire Matt Carroll, you gotta pull the trigger.

    ...chortle. - (for fans of www.lowposts.com)
     
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Joe has openly spoken and made multiple attempts to find his Vinnie Johnson. He was hell bent on doing it. I will say that he swung for the fences when he got the chance. I doubt you'll ever see a player signed to purposely come off the bench who makes as much as Gordon does.

    Are you sure Joe thinks the team is short on big men? The Pistons lost 2 pillars of their team in Sheed and Dyess from their 38ish win club and who did Joe sign 35 seconds into the free agency period with his cap space? I don't think it is right to sit here and say Joe doesn't like the way this team is constructed. It seems deliberate to me.

    The more time goes on I am convinced that Hammond must have had Joe tied up in the corner when they traded for Sheed. Were he left to his own devices Joe would have tried to get Damon Stoudamire instead to give them a lethal 3 guard attack.

    I think some of you would remove the plumbing from your houses if Joe told you too.
     
  6. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    Vienna
    Yes, but that does mean that JoeD should have uploaded RIP BEFORE signign Rip and showing the world he has an unbalanced roster and needs help. Not after that. Simple as that.
    I remember people freaking out because he talked to the nets about a GM position. I wouldn't since JoeD may still be better than lots of stupid GMs out there but I really don't see how he's going to turn the Pistons into a contender again the way he's acting in the last years.
     
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    OK, I agree that maybe Rip's contract wasn't such a good move. But besides that, what was this great trade or FA so clearly available to Joe that he passed on?
     
  8. Brap

    Brap Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    28
    Guys IF (that's "if" as in this needs to happen and if it doesn't happen this won't work), Tay or Daye - plus Monroe are capable of having the offense run through them, then the truth is Rip and Gordon can play in the same backcourt. A Point forward and a Point center makes having a point guard on the floor largely irrelevant.

    Now, my preference is to trade Rip ASAP. My preference is also to have White surpass Bynum in the rotation so we have Stuckey White Gordon and Daye be the 4 guys getting all the guard minutes. But I think Rip and Gordon could well coexist IF they're on the floor with those guys with "point" skills.

    Joe D has talked about this for 2 seasons now - that the league has largely moved away from the true point guard mold - that that's a 20 year old concept; and forum posters all over the spectrum seem to not be able to accept Joe's judgment on that or just ignore the fact that he continues to say that. The point is Joe doesn't want Stuckey and Bynum and White to play like Steve Nash and Chris Ford. He doesn't want his points to dribble the ball and dribble and dribble etc. In Stuckey's rookie year or maybe it was his second season, the plan was for a number of guys on the team to share the initiator role with Chauncey. They keep trying to initiate that philosophy but change and injuries have totally interupted that transition in our offense.
     
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    It never said it was a "Great" trade. But any trade that would have taken Rip, Tay, Max or Wilcox off the books and roster is a GREAT trade. I'm assuming that he passed on that opportunity because (from the wording of the article) Joe wants value (in the form of players) back in return. It seems as if Joe was not open to taking back.....say....ummm......A TRADE EXCEPTION and/or draft picks! You know....the types of assets that landed AL Jefferson.
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I love your optimism, can I offer you a glass of Kool-Aid?
     
  11. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Wishful thinking, BY JOE! Was he actually under the impression that Larry Brown and Michael Jordan would cooperate with HIM of all people? I bet they made that trade just to spite Joe. Again, he didn't get it done!!!
     
  12. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,920
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Other than the South Beach Conspiracy and Utah landing Jefferson, every move that was made this summer was a knee-jerk OMG-we-didn't-land-BeLron type of move and is going to blow up the faces of the GMs that pulled those triggers.

    I say it again. I'd rather have Joe stay put then throw money at mediocre-to-worthless players this summer.

    Y'all would still throw him to the wolves if he did give away Tay or Rip for cap space.
     
  13. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Your post sounds logical to me but, if we have another 30 win season, I reserve the right to change my mind.
     
  14. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    354
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argentina
    I'm agree with this.


    We need to understand that us, as Die hard Pistons Fans, we would love to see this team improve RIGHT NOW.. I mean.. RIGHT NOW.. I want to go to bed tonight and see that we give Wilcox for the first round pick of The Raptors or (another crappy team).. or read some rumors about Joe Dumars trying to get Brook Lopez and Rajon Rondo in an impressive 4-team-deal (:pound:)


    But the truth is that Joe Dumars may be right.. and wait another season to watch this team without injuries (and the Rookies and Sophomores and the "New Stuckey who-lost-a-lot-of-weight") might be the best thing to do right now.

    I don't believe that Dumars goes to work everyday and sit in his office and do NOTHING..

    I also don't believe that he doesn't have a plan for this roster if at december we still looking bad as the last season.. (but this year without injuries and all..)
     
  15. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    1. He needs to get on the treadmill more.

    2. He needs to order take-out BBQ less.
     
  16. Brap

    Brap Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    28
    Yes please - perhaps with a nice sliced lime wedge.
     
  17. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    Vienna
    I do remember that the Celts offered Rondo and Ray Allen for Stuckey and Tay or something like that and JoeD rejected - you guys still think that was smart by him?
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    The negativity is a real drag around here. There is keeping it real, and then there is being chicken little, and we've started to cross that bridge.

    Yes, Joe is not doing a great job. So? Life goes on. If people don't like it, all you can really do is stop supporting the Pistons. Killing someone else's buzz won't change anything.

    Some of you guys set these standards "must win", "must draft cousins", "must acquire al jeff" or threaten to withhold your loyalty from the franchise. Well, I know some people from PSE read here, but I am pretty sure Joe D doesn't, so if you want to offer a meaningful ultimatum, call him. Call PSE and ask to speak to him or his secretary and leave a message.

    "Yeah, I'll leave a message. This is pistonfan411forever1988. Tell Joe if he doesn't win a title this year, I am moving in with my Uncle Leo from Hamtramck and becoming a Knicks fan."
     
  19. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,314
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    1) That was a dangle by the Celtics, not a formal offer. We can only speculate whether they would have really offered it.

    2) Before anyone trashes Joe on this one, keep in mind that the vast majority of us didn't even give this deal a second thought. The Palace Artest is actually the only one I can remember who immediately said he would have done it. Maybe Roscoe, too.
     
  20. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,946
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Roscoe...to put this in perspective a bit...remember the old days when the Pistons were on top of the world? I think people complained just as much then as they do now. I think it's the nature of forum life to nitpick and hash over the coach and GM. We all know how to do things better than they do.
     

Share This Page