Dumars: Trades, free-agent signings possible

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by markie8002000, May 1, 2009.

  1. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I slowly start to think lottery is almost necessary to improve- out of the currently successfull teams, I see that
    Denver got Carmelo
    Houston Yao
    Cle this Lebron dude
    Orlando got Howard
    Heck, even San Antonio got Duncan years ago, Atlanta Josh Smith, MIA Wade and so on.
    all out of the draft. Lone exceptions seem to be Boston and LA.
    So slowly start to think it's going to pretty hard to improve by FAs and trades alone as most teams need to go the hard way in order to acquire rookies.
  2. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    That's how we got Darko too! I agree, with Joe's expertise in handling lottery picks that is the route we should take.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Also, they did also have big FA signings. Den- Billups/ Houston- McGrady/ Cleveland- Ben Wallace/ Orlando- Rashard Lewis. All of those are bigger FA signings that we have had. Sheed was the last comparable one, but at the time, he was sort of Artest-like damaged goods.

    We do have Stuckey, Tay, Afflalo, Maxiell, and Amir all through the draft, but I agree that they are all complementary players.

    But one other thing... the foreigners. We have Herrmann, that's it. We struck out with Darko, lost Okur due to economics, had a weird few seasons with Delfino, paid Samb to be a spectator... any others

    Cleveland- Ilgauskas, Varejao, Pavlovich
    Denver- Nene, Kleiza, Petro
    Houston- Yao, Scola, Mutumbo
    Orlando- Turk, Gortat, Pietrus
    Lakers- Gasol, Radmonovich, Vujacic
    Celtics- ...hmm, none really
    San Antonio- Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Oberto, Udoka (pretty much the entire team)


    I think the Celtics are the only team with less foreign contributors than us.
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That's a great contribution TaShawn.:yo:

    Generally we've done a good job with the lower picks.

    What seems like a solid strategy is to trade veterans that have maxed out their abilities for 2nd and 3rd year players that are ready for the next step (ala Rip for Stack)... fortuntely there are still impatient GMs and coaches trying to save their jobs.

    How much longer is Rip going to be able use the athletisism advantage?
    Has the league figured out the best way to beat Tay is with a quick first step or power move (vs perimeter shots)?
    Point being it may be the optimum time to move these two.

    As for the foreign contributions... can't say I blame Joe from shying away... more times than not these guys come here and are defensive liabilities... the Ronzones aren't seeing the quickness of the American game on a regular basis. Anybody want Yi... anybody?
    Hopefully Joe doesn't completely ignore the foreign talent (as you pointed out).... maybe just a little more selective with the athletisism side of the game (Nene Verejao etc)... My guess is we'll have two new Euros stashed this summer to maximize our FA shopping.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It is important to realize how difficult it is to win a title at all. 30 teams. Maybe 5 of them are economically/ managerially incapable of winning ever. So, figure that if you are a GM and you are doing an average job, you shouldn't expect to win more than once every 25 years or so.

    Cleveland got the #1 pick in perhaps the best draft ever. On top of that, they have spent money to bring in FA's such as Hughes/ Williams and Ben Wallace. They have picked up some very high performers like Varejao. And yet, with all that, they have still spent the last 6 seasons slowly building the intangibles and developing Lebron's ability to win it all. And it is entirely possible that they will get denied again this year by the Laker.

    Even if the Pistons were handed Lebron for free next season, I wouldn't bet my life savings that they would actually win the title.


    So, the way I look at it is that Joe needs to be very opportunistic here. There is no magic sure-fire formula that will work. And I just don't see tanking as an option. If Joe tanks and waits for draft picks, Detroit could literally have 5,000 people show up at the Palace (since the city is dismal economically right now). It would be insanely difficult to ignore that type of pressure for 2 or more seasons.

    IMO, the best strategy is to look for steals here and there until we can build a team back to that 2003 threshold (very strong defensively, very cohesive team, but not quite a contender). Then, Joe can gamble with that one move that takes us over the top. There has to be a way to take advantage of organizations that are over the cap, or just looking to save money. This economy should reward teams that have been fiscally conservative. Downturns tend to make guys like Davidson look wise (instead of cheap).
  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Don't know - LBJ would be pretty good at dribbling while waiting to throw the ball to Rip.
  7. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Perhaps, but at this point...that's a lateral move. The supposed improvement there is marginal and we're right back at square one if he, like prince, has apparently maxed out and doesn't get any better (as everyone expected Prince to do).

    If we're going to surrender draft picks AND a starter, I would much rather we make a concerted effort to bring in someone who leaves no questions of upside or future possible improvement. The league is full of players who do not require a paying off of potential in order to contribute.

    I can find some examples for you, but "on the job" is not the best time for me to be searching for future SF's...lol
  8. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    I gotta say, when we brought in Ben Wallace, Rip, and Tay, a lot of it was motivated out of what they POTENTIALLY could become in a Pistons uniform.

    - Ben was a proven commodity as far as being a rugged role player, but no one in the L viewed him as a full-time starter let along multiple all-star.
    - Rip was an established shooter and starter, but at the time mostly everyone thought Joe was nuts for giving up a franchise player (Stackhouse) for a kid who may or may not develop into a top-tier shooting guard.
    - Tay was a low first rounder who most assumed lacked the body and motor to make it. OK, so maybe the mileage and his thin frame has diminished his productivity, but he was for a while one of the most desirbale SF's.

    The point being that IF we can land a major franchise type guy, great, but in lieu of that, and perhaps in some cases in preference to doing that (e.g., Boozer, Bosh), we can make it big by bringing in a few guys who have the potential to break out in a Pistons uniform.

    At the expense of trying to seem fashionable, I mention Houston as an example of a team that is full of those kinds of guys who are now blossoming. Closer to the home, the C's have repeated the rewards of sticking with Rondo and Perkins.
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Look at the Houston team that we just saw against the Lakers. They are clearly a playoff caliber team. They had $37,010,000 in salaries to injured players.

    So, their non-injured team is made up of a lot of underpaid, underappreciated players. Just think of how good they would be if they could have bought $37M worth of performing superstars to add to this collection.

    Build a team like the core of the Houston team and then add the real stars. That way you will get better draft picks along the way and you don't have to gamble on the long-term health of highly paid players.

    This is in contrast to the model where you sign up the TMac's first and then hope to attract talent to complement him.
  10. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    That makes WAY too much sense.
  11. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Excellent post and some sound direction. However, there are some outstanding issues.

    Granted, this is a buyer market. Many solid players will do everything to stay with their current team and the excellent high pay that went with past good times. Do not disparage older player(s) that are 29+. Most will have at least 3 good years left. It all depends on your system.

    I don't have any idea what kind of system that JD is looking toward that matches certain types of players.

    Even if JD has a clue, does he have the type of coach that can mold it into a cohesive unit?

    Does this organization have any clue on what sort of processes it feels strong and comfortable when going after certain players? It certainly can be a mixture of draft, FA and trades.

    You could do damage being alert toward these three teams: Phoenix (Amare), Lakers (Odom, Ariza, Brown), Portland (Outlaw,Rodriguez). A mixture of three would give you a plus .500 season and a solid future to build upon.
  12. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

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    Rodriguez in a nba contender team would´t have long career,his defense is zero...i like sergio as microwave pg from the bench minor minutes,is a offensive and creative player but for play off,his defense or his body is insufficient for nba.
    Sergio in suns system could be a smooth and colorful PG.
  13. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    with the Clipper nation getting the # 1 pick, things change now...They have Thorton, Randolph, Kaman and Camby up front, so if the Clipps take Griffin they may try to move one of their bigs. They got Davis and Gordon, so I doubt they will select Rubio...

    The question is who do they try to [STRIKE]dump[/STRIKE] move, Camby, Zack or Thornton?

    Who would Joe like and who could we send??
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd get Kaman and violate the CBA if I had to in order to sign him long term.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Kaman is a total stiff.

    He has trouble staying healthy, plus he has some condition that was misdiagnosed for years IIRC.

    [SARCASM]We need a healthy big man, someone who can hang out at the 3 pt arc and shoot left handed threes, then speed walk back into defensive position.[/SARCASM]
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Pfffft that's so 2004, you'll never win in the NBA that way these days. You got to get inside scoring from your bigs to win.
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Randolph is a [STRIKE]great[/STRIKE] good player with potential... if we had the right coach to keep him focused.
  18. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Charlotte seems like a good place for him :sssh:
  19. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Randolph would give us 20 and 10 for about the 50 games he would [STRIKE]play[/STRIKE] be focused in...if we win all of those, we are guaranteed at least home court in the first round....:MusicBigGrin:
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Randolph is a bum. I would rather watch Amir foul out in the second quarter for 82 consecutive games than see Randolph suit up once in a Pistons uniform.

    It's sad how bad the talent level in this league is.

    On the positive side, we do have Will Bynum.

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