1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Dumb and dumberer

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Wiggles, I got to disagree with you here. Its not the roster. The Pistons have plenty of good players and are very capable of winning games. Heck, they could easily get into the playoffs yet if they tried. My beef? They won't even try. Too many other agendas.

    I see lots of theory's about why Kuester is a loser. But me, I really don't care why he is a loser. He is just a loser. And whoever is pushing this guy to be a loser, for whatever reasons they have - they are just losers too. I say to all the losers, get out of the way - there are still players on the Pistons who would like to win some games. Let them.
     
  2. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Would you have voted for him to be on the team? I think the allstar voting is a total joke.

    while I would like a slot saved for lifetime achievement sort of things.... decided by maybe the players, the fans have showed they don't deserve to vote for the best players to playing in a game to highlight there talents. The game should really be renamed.. "Fans favorite game"

    Billiups and Rip should have been all stars before they were, and actually didn't deserve most the years they did go.


    ok i'll get off my soapbox now.
     
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    We're a team of spare parts being coached by a person looking for a coaching identity. That combination places us right where we should be. Near the bottom of the league. Oh yea...it could turn around quickly, but probably not this season or next.
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Mike Brown is a lousy coach... talent breeds perception of intellegence.
    Lack of talent = Pistons (comparitively speaking)
     
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    WoW, do I need to say former all-stars...
    Once you're an all-star I thought the moniker stuck.
    Rip, BBen, Tay is the .5 or has he gone? What about BG ? That would make 3.5
     
  6. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    There is a big difference between saying this team should be good because it has 3.5 former all-stars....and we should be good because we have 3.5 all-stars. It changes the whole meaning.
     
  7. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    you mean if we had a line up of

    Isiah, Stockten, Jordon, Magic, Hill, Bird, Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and kareem playing for us right now we wouldn't win the title? I mean that would be 5 all stars by that train of thought :P
     
  8. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    rip and billups were allstars due to teamwork. practically exceptions.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Tay was an All-Star?
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No, Tay is 0.5 All-Star. Pay attention! I think Chris Wilcox and Chucky Atkins are 0.2 All-Stars, so we actually have 3.9 All-Stars. I can't believe we have lost so many games...
     
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think Joe keeps an All Star jersey for Tay in his office that he can wear on special occasions like contract re-negotiation.
     
  12. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I feel as though the past eight to ten seasons for the Detroit Pistons (and their fans) has been the perfect storm.

    So we start when Joe D took over in 2000-2001. Pistons finish 2 games over .500, play the Heat in the first round of the Eastern Conference Playoffs, and Grant Hill fractures his ankle. Joe D wants to keep Hill, but is unable.
    Carlisle is brought in to coach the team, Corliss Williamson wins 6th Man of the Year, Ben Wallace wins DPOY, and Carlisle wins COY. Things are looking up.

    2002-2003 rolls around, and Joe D is active making moves. Scraps Jerry Stackhouse (whom many of us thought was a horrible move) for a skinny, shooting guard who many thought had a poor attitude. Joe added Okur, and journeymen Chauncy Billups, and Tay via draft. Another 50 win season. Things are on the up and up.

    Now here is where it gets murky. A high round draft pick was attaind from the Vanvouver Grizzlies in the Otis Thorpe trade of 1997 I believe. So technically, that 2nd Pick in the draft never should have been ours anyway. To go right along with that, not only did Darko turn out to be a complete bust for the Detroit Pistons, it changed the landscape of the Eastern Conference. Not only did we not obtain Dwayne Wade OR Chris Bosh, they went to our Eastern Conference competitors. Dwayne Wade went on to not only eliminate our Detroit Pistons from the playoffs a few years later, he won a title for the Miami Heat.
    Carlisle is fired, and a verteran, proven winner in Larry Brown is brought it. Larry turned Chauncey Billups into the leader we needed him to be, and most importantly the point guard we needed to go along with our talented team. Joe D would pull off another great move by stealing Rasheed Wallace from the Atlanta Hawks. The hard work ethic that LB instilled in the players payed off, as they won the title in 2004.

    But not only did they win the title in 2004, they beat the Los Angeles Lakers. Who was on that Lakers team? The best all around player since Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant in his prime. 3 Time NBA Champion, 2 time MVP, Shaquille O'Neal. All-time leading scorer, Karl Malone. 2 Time Defensive player of the year, Gary Payton. How about 8 time title winning coach Phil Jackson (possibly the best coach ever, maybe behind Red). Now if you are going to win a title, that is the team to beat! It is also a catalyst for the biggest downfall in the last decade by any sports team.

    After the Malace at the Palace, and another 50+ win season, the Pistons lost to none other than Dwayne Wade, Shaq, and the Miami Heat in the 2005 playoffs. A huge let down in the eyes of many Piston fans. It would be hard for the Pistons to win with their defensive style of play, after the NBA literally changed rules to hinder the playing style of the "boring" Detroit Pistons and San Antonio Spurs. Not only that, but the Pistons were up against a new era of NBA superstar. The poster children of the NBA had taken over, and Lebron and Dwayne Wade would not be held back by physical play and great defenders.

    I feel that after Joe D and LB had whatever type of falling out they had, that was the end of the great Piston era. Even though we had a few great years under Flip, we were no longer the same team. We had a since of entitlement. The hard nosed work eithic was broken by bad calls, and red carpet treatment towards Lebron James and Dwayne Wade. Our backs were broken.

    There is no real one person to blame. What it comes down to is a change in NBA playing style, a missed opportunity for the Pistons, and a gained opportunity for the Miami Heat, a sense of wrongful entitlement that lead to complacency, an aging crew that should have been parted with piece by piece, and rebuilt from the ground up, and possibly some misguided free agent spending.

    Like I started the post with, a perfect storm of joy, pain, gain, and blame. The only way out is to man up, admit our mistakes, and push forward together. I just hope it happens with the Pistons here in Detroit, and sooner rather than later.
     
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    :crying: Darn onions
     
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good summary hitafreebee
     
  15. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    And thank you for the correction there Dre. I was kind of just whizzing through this, as I had alot going through my head.

    I feel like the win over the Lakers was both the high point, and the upset of the decade. Can it not be both?

    And yes, Flip had SUCH a short rotation that year. Rarely playing more than 7 guys. Wow. That was crucial, I cant believe I left that out. You are totally right.
     
  16. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I guess we should bring Alex English out of retirement.
    Lets make the unofficial count 4.5.


    This is professional sports. One is only as good as their last game/season played.
     
  17. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    To cast my vote on this topic. I'll choose Joe.

    Q can only play the hand he is dealt, and keep in mind that he likely feels pressure to win games if possible.

    Joe, on the other hand, can make it easier on Q by eliminating players too old to be part of our future success.

    Dump Rip, parlay Tayshaun into something tangible down the line. Lets start thinking towards the future and developing our youngsters.

    I'd hate to see Daye in a Warriors Jersey 5 years from now because the Org. didn't give him a fair shot while Tay and Rip kept showing up at the top of the stat sheet in loss after loss.
     
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It is disheartening to see any former Pistons in other uniforms where their team is playing better than us and they are actually contributing

    CB & Alf in Denver
    Sheed in Boston
    Delfino in Milwaukee
    Amir in Toronto
    and even Flip Jr in Atlanta before he got traded.

    At this point I cannot determine if McDyess is helping out in San Antonio or not as they are struggiling to stay playoff eligible....I guess we will find out tomorrow.
     
  19. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Hitafreethrow: good summary. The decline was inevitable as soon as Darko didn't pan out. That meant that the Piston run would go only so far as the bigs could last. As the Piston bigs aged, the elite status was lost. You can't replace Sheed with Maxiel and Ben with Amir and expect to stay elite. You can't bring in journeyman like Wilcox and Kwame and expect him to revive the Pistons. You can't draft low and expect to pull impacting bigs out of the hat. It is almost impossible to do.

    The Pistons are not as bad as they seem but that is true of most of the teams near the bottom who are just a player or two away. The problem for the Pistons is a deep one in that that player or two is an impacting big. It is very hard to find a Sheed or Ben in their prime. Tay and Rip are worth more than people think but they are not worth a young big--that is the problem.

    Everyone tends to talk about Stuckey, or that Billips is gone and so on. It doesn't matter. Not in relation to Ben being 35, Sheed looking pretty bad with Boston and Dyss being 35. After all, it was Ben and Sheed who really made that great Piston (defensive) juggernaut. Not Billips, not Rip and not even Tay. That Ben/Sheed interior D was a sight to behold.

    Looking ahead, if the Pistons draft in the top 5 they have a good chance to get an impacting big. If they draft 9-12 it is fool's gold and Joe shoud probably trade the pick.

    JJ is for real--just need to see is he a good player or even more, a star in the making. I like Daye. Stuckey has promise to turn the corner provided he shoots better. I think Gordon is hurt. CV is an issue. His game needs to be remade from top to bottom. He needs a big man coach.
     
  20. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Stuckey has been more productive than Rip this year.
     

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