ECF Game 4 Celtics/Pistons Mon. May 26th 8:30 PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by roscoe36, May 25, 2008.

  1. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    If we play with the AGGRESSION, ENERGY & HEART as well as play both ends as a TEAM, we can win the next 2 games. Move the ball, make the extra passes, we will win. 27 asst tonite. Whenever we past the 25 asst mark, we have yet to lose. CB will never be fully recover for the rest of the season (if we can get into the finals), let alone this series. But he still can contribute by makin plays and makin asst, steals and of course FTs. If both CB and RIP has at least a dozen asst between them, I'm pretty sure we will win. DICE really played his heart out tonite. Hope the rest of the team can follow suit for the remaining of the series. What DICE said in the post game interview is what all forumites in here agreed. If we lose the series leaving everything on the court, we can deal with it. We rant bout stuff in here when we lose is cuz we played as if we can 'flip the switch' anytime when needed. NO HEART like in game 3.

    What we can see in this series is that in the 4th quarter, the Celts have no more energy in their bodies. They are definitely a step slower. Can't make shots. All we got to do is get the ball inside and we will be fine. In game 3, we shot jumpers in the 4th, no good. RIP did a great job and driving inside for lay ups in the 4th and in one possession, he dished the ball inside to MAX, who made the shot. Flip should run some plays where gettin CB in the post in the 2nd half. We did this to start the 10-0 run in the 1st quarter but after that, we did run the play anymore and god knows why.

    Rebounds, we got outrebound by the Celts in every game so far this series. However, we got outrebounded by 4 tonite. As long as we keep this stat within 5, we will be alrite. If we win this stat, we will definitely win without a doubt.

    Why is Kid Rock at the JLA? Was he at JLA last Sat?
  2. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    This is one of the reasons I think the Pistons might pull this out. With Dyess going from soft spoken to the outspoken conscience of the team I'm hoping we see no more lazy efforts like game 3.

    And that is, I think, the difference between the Celtics and the Pistons - - the P's were lazy in Game 3... the Celtics looked tired in Game 4.

    And I have to say the people running the CelticsBlog show that not all of the fans are like their chest pounding team and bandwagon fans. I particularly liked this comment:
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but I don't get the accounting.

    There were 79 missed shots in this game and there were only 72 rebounds. Don't those two numbers need to equal eachother?

    Boston shot 21 for 66 = 45 misses
    Detroit shot 36 for 70 = 34 misses

    Boston had 38 rebounds
    Detroit had 34 rebounds

    Is team rebounds the difference? If so, how is that credited, and doesn't that mean that we effectively got those boards?

    I'm guessing that airballs with a shot clock violation is one possible reason. If so, then I think the defensive team should get a team rebound for those. Also, shots that end up out of bounds, same thing.

    So, I'm not convinced that we were outrebounded in this game. It sure didn't feel like they were getting more that us. Dyess was rebounding hard and there were very few rebounds that we should have got, but didn't. Their desperate shot attempts resulted in a few offensive boards that are to be expected.
  4. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    its got to rate up there.... princes block was like a ballet dance, and max's was the head bangers ball... lol

    but both are wow moments....
  5. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I've never quite understood this either, but - how about missed free throws? Those count as boards, but the box scores never give you number of missed first versus missed second shots so it's never possible to compute the percent of rebounds attained which is the more interesting number.


    My two cents re the number of fouls - yes, there were a lot, and yes, there were some dubious calls, but there were sure a lot of dumb fouls committed too.
  6. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    As jz pointed out, the Celts looked tired in the 4th, effect of too many 7 games series IMO. If Flip can continue using the bench effectively and maintain the energy of the Pistons then Game 5 is for the taking. Punch 'em in the mouth and keep 'em down, I don't think the Celts have the energy to keep fighting.

    Tay deserves kudos for keeping Pierce quiet, though a little more on offense would'nt hurt.
  7. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Rebounds off missed FTs is one thing that doesn't show up in the box score, and as dba said, you can't get it straight from the stats because they don't tell you how many missed 2nd FTs there were.

    I'm not sure what the deal with "team rebounds" is. TaS's disparity of 79 missed shots and 72 rebounds between the two teams is a lot smaller than the 20 total "team rebounds" listed in the Yahoo box score (13 for Boston, 7 for Detroit).

    My understanding is that "team rebounds" are just those rebounds that go out of bounds before anyone grabs it (off the rim, over the backboard, off the shot clock, or tipped out of bounds before anyone gets possession). An airball at the end of the shot clock is sort of an in-between thing; it counts as a missed shot, but I think it also counts as a turnover against the guy who airballed?

    So total rebounds + total "team rebounds" should pretty much equal missed FGs + missed 2nd FT attempts (or 3rd, on a 3-pt shooting foul). There were so many FTs taken last night (though not very many missed) that the totals probably work out for last night's game.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    OK, that probably explains it. I completely forgot about rebounds off of missed free throws.

    I guess the point is that unless we have all the data, it isn't easy to say whether or not they rebounded better than we did. For instance, if all of our missed free throws were on the 2nd attempt and Boston easily got all of those rebounds, it doesn't really mean that they were doing a great job on the glass.

    But whatever. My impression from watching the game was that we were doing a really nice job on the boards. I never had that frustrated feeling when Boston snagged an offensive board. It was more like a "sure, throw up a crap shot and they get a lucky bounce" type of feeling.


    It is so much fun to watch a pumped up, motivated, swarming, defense-first Pistons performance. They truly look like the best team in the NBA when they are doing that. Vintage 2004 grit. That is why it will be so baffling if they come out flat next game. If Dyess leads the way and gets them to the next level, it will be quite a story.
  9. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I caught up with the game in the second haf because I just could not stomach a poorly played game, not two times in a row.

    I thought the game was POORLY OFFICIATED, why not just hand the game to the Celtics on a silver platter. The "Let The Celtics Win By Giving Them A Free Ride To The Free Throw Line Concept" obviously did not work.

    I have always said that Boston is a tired team, if the Pistons are willing to play that kind of defense for a full 48, we won't lose another game against this team.

    KG and Ray J was sucking air when they were given a blow somewhere around the end of the 3rd or top of the 4th qtr.

    I would so much like to see Flip throw fresh bodies at the Celtics, they can be worn down if only Flip would use the bench and throw both AA and AJ out there for energy.

    If we can keep the score close next game, we can come out and take control if Flip utilizes his bench.

    Good game, thank you Dyess for saying what all of us already knew, "We are sick and tired, of being sick and tired", hearing the same crap after every loss; 1)We ain't worried, 2)If it ain't rough...,(you know the rest), 3) We ain't no Punks (ala Rasheed), we ain't scurred of those cats, 4)we know what we have to do, 5).........You know the rest.
  10. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I think the only way to read into the numbers in any one game on rebounding is just the offensive rebounding. I was getting frustrated with some of the 2nd chances Boston was getting in the second half, but overall the numbers were pretty even, 11 offensive boards for Boston and 9 for Detroit. Boston had 10 more rebounds overall in the first half, but that was largely because the Celtics had way more turnovers and FT attempts than the Pistons did, hence fewer defensive rebounding chances for the Pistons. You also have to take into account things like weird possessions where one team gets like 4 offensive rebounds all at once; the only thing that really matters there is whether they score on that possession or not.

    Looking up "team rebounds," I see there are some other little subtleties to it. If there's a foul after a missed shot before anyone gets the board--that happened a few times last night, I think--it's a team rebound for whichever team got fouled. And if someone misses a shot at the buzzer of a quarter, it's a team rebound for the offense!
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Yeah, here is I really feel about that stretch, at the risk of some Boston fan wondering by and reading this. Garnett was gutless, choosing not to attack Theo on a few occasions. I think that helped Boston lose the game, which is a great thing, and I hope Garnett acts the same way next time. (But I doubt very much that the film from the game has not been fed to Garnett showing him what he should have done.)
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    There were in our favor when you consider that they rebounded 24% of their own misses and we got 26% of ours.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It has been pointed out a lot, but when Rip makes hard cuts and curls it helps DET immensely.

    Flip hasn't been all bad. Switching Tay & Rip (and the PG at times) whenever there is a screen roll with Pierce has worked well. Doing the same with Rip and the PG on Rondo has worked also. The bad is when you see Max hitting J's like last night. If Flip wasn't so rigid during the year he could hit that shot a lot more.

    KG made way tougher shots that the ones he was passing up last night. The free throw J he passed to Rondo in the 4th? Yikes.

    Rondo kills the C's. I have no idea why he won't shoot.

    Can DET play with that energy for 2 straight games?
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    And can the Celtics come out as tight as they were in game 4...... that would go a long way towards helping the Blue team steal another one on the road.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They really were tight. Was the atmosphere at the Palace intimidating them or what?
  16. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Change the "can" to "will" and I think Ernie has come up with the only question that really matters.

    The Pistons are clearly the fresher team (i.e. they CAN play with that energy). Boston tried last night (unlike Detroit in Game 3). Boston's effort has always been there (and if their energy has not matched ours it's not for lack of trying, but more likely fatigue, as others have observed). Our energy seems, fortunately and unfortunately, to be a function of our effort (read: our will or desire or whatever you want to call it)

    My feeling is that the series is purely a matter of will on the part of the pistons. If they decide to play with energy and with effort, I really don't think it matters what Boston does: Pistons will win the next two. If they give away one of the next two, then Game 7 will be a toss up, because the emotion of Game 7 at home may be enough to carry Boston through the fatigue and through even a desperation Pistons effort. But I don't think they'll give away either of the next two: I'm still sticking with Pistons in six (and I'd just like congratulate myself because in the ECF Deja Vu thread, I foresaw exactly the dynamic and the win pattern that we've seen so far in the series).

    I also want to point out something that Dice has been doing nicely all series, even before his breakout starring performance last night: killing (or at least wounding) Boston runs. Someone pointed out that PJ Brown does this well for Boston. I've noticed in every game so far that when Boston takes off or hits back or what have you, it's always a bucket by Dice that seems to stop (or at least interrupt it). Just a side note, probably not of great relevance.
  17. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I think it's mostly about will from the Pistons at home, but I'm not so sure about that in Boston. The Pistons obviously played with great effort in Game 2, but they also needed incredible execution for almost the entire game to pull it out. The Pistons' execution was certainly more consistent in Game 2 than it was last night, but they had a much wider margin for error in Game 4 because Boston got back to their usual (crappy) selves on the road. I definitely think the Pistons will have to play better than they did last night in order to be able to win again in Boston.
  18. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    hey all. what a difference! first, a few points i forgot to mention from the last game...i sat on the wrong side of my buddy, and when the players came out at the beginning for warmups, the celtics came out at the same time as the pistons. just a bunch of weird stuff all around.

    it was time to get down to business. as we were entering the palace, instead of a bunch of music pumping, it was rather quiet outside (they were tearing everything down early) and it just seemed like everyone wanted to focus on winning. the crowd was ultra-loud, people were standing and cheering a lot more for good plays, and no one let up screaming for all 4 quarters. i lost some of my vocal capabilities by the 4th quarter and i'm having difficulty talking today.

    i'm glad we finally had a great start. there were a couple screaming girls directly behind us and they were loud (as well as hilarious, although a bit much dropping f bombs left and right at one stretch of the 3rd quarter). they also kept spilling beer on my buddy and i got some splashes on my legs, but because they were so spirited we didn't care. i think i did a pretty good job cheering as well and yelling 'DEEE-FENSE' constantly and getting many others around me to do the same.

    as for the game itself, what a joke. i've been to countless games and this was by far the most poorly officiated game i've ever witnessed. this should've been a 40-point blowout and refs decided to keep the celtics in the game. toward the end of the 3rd quarter that had over 50% of their points come from FTs. it was 10 PM at halftime! and boy, the fans did not let the refs off the hook...but it was so blatantly horrible we couldn't believe it. i'm not one to complain about the officiating, but this was so blatantly terrible that i would like to discuss what i saw:

    - cassell hurts his back and arches it, so the refs call a foul without seeing anything
    - rondo trips his feet on rip's and it is a foul, while chauncey trips on cassell and nothing is called
    - garnett gets fouled along the baseline and they're about to take the ball out on the sidelines, when the celtics whine a little bit, so the refs confer and overturn the call
    - mcdyess gets an and-1 called off and instead just gets 2 FTs
    - refs call pistons ball on an out-of-bounds play, the crowd cheers, then about 5-10 seconds later they randomly change the call and give the celtics the ball back
    - something else i forgot but i'm sure it was bad

    ...and that's just a sample. The bad calls are one thing, but changing them to favor the celtics after they have been already called for the pistons is just lame.

    After the game we met the couple we sit close to during the regular season and discussed the game, then we went to our car and there were 4 people tailgating near our car so we chatted with them for awhile, and I didn't get home until 1:30. I also got a frosty at Wendy's (chocolate oreo), but the drive thru took nearly 6 minutes and it was practically liquid. By the time I realized it, it was too late.

    Anyway, best crowd all year, great game, great time.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Execution is tough for fans, b/c when it's off, it's off, and there is nobody to blame. You can say that we should get easier shots and get in the paint, etc., but we should be doing all those things anyway.

    As you all know from playing sports yourself, some days you got it and other days you don't. Sometimes it is very mysterious how your touch can leave you. Fortunately for us, Dyess has been on. He's getting his shot, but he could just as easily be bricking 2/3rds of them and we would be saying that he's washed up. He's executing.

    And Warthog, I'm really glad to hear that the crowd was letting the refs have it. I'm still very disturbed by that game. I'm ultra confident in our team, but I've become paranoid about the system.
  20. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    That was a great block, however, NBA TV had a countdown of the ten best defensive plays or it might have been ten best blocks of the season, Max`s block on Chandler was #1!

    That block last night could very easily slide the Chnadler block to #2 and take over the num 1 slot!!!!!!

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