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Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by Dlev59, May 27, 2008.
What happened? I miss this.
The calls seemed about even to me by halftime. The Pistons got some breaks early from the refs but then the Cs got some in the 2nd quarter. I didn't watch enough of the second half to have a complete opinion, but the Pistons did end up with more FTs than Boston, didn't they? I think it's tough to complain too much when that happens on the road.
How many games would these guys have to play before DET gets a hugely favorable whistle, 100? This game turned in the 2nd quarter when the C's really turned up the pressure on Hamilton and Billups. Getting rough with Rip took him totally out of the game well into the 3rd quarter. Flip should have taken him out sooner and gone with Stuckey. Maybe the lead would not have hit as high as it did. Rip did bounce back in the 4th, but I think he would have any way. 100% BS T on Sheed (No 2 pt fg?). Unreal. How can the announcers not realize that Perkins' T was a makeup? Flip actually got in the refs face. What he did worked, but I think Flip should have gone offense for D and brought Hunter in with less than 2 to go. DET will get what passes for them as hometown calls on Friday. Other teams would consider this getting screwed. I see Mr. Magoo and Bozo the Clown working if there is a game 7. The sad part, as Roscoe has been saying, is that BOS is not that good. I guess that is the price you pay when you don't take advantage of earlier opportunities. Come to think of it, Ed F. Rush and Ken Mauer do a pretty good impersonation of Messrs. Magoo and the Clown. I was waiting for KG to hit them with the confetti bucket.
Actually, looking it up, I see that the Pistons were called for 9 more fouls than Boston, but shot 8 more FTs? That's a pretty weird disparity.
The perimeter defense is horrible, which keeps exposing our bigs to foul trouble. They are not picking up fouls on Perkins and KG. The fouls are coming on penetration. Tay has been horrible. I remember how LB used to yell at him, and people would feel sorry for Tay. When he passed up those 2 (or was it 3) open treys tonight, I wish LB was there to scream at him. His play has been horrible, and he should be embarrassed. Flip has actually been pretty decent on the sideline, except he still lacks any feel for changing a bad lineup until it costs the scoreboard badly. If CB was healthy, we would have won this series in 5 or 6. We still can win it in 7, but not with the lousy refereeing. Tonight was the second straight game the Pistons got a raw deal. We have to stop playing Theo. He's been -4 and -5 in his last two games. He's terrible. There is no way any other big could be any worse, and in fact, I think Hermann gives us more offensively (and between the ears). Theo's not making plays, he's not getting boards, and tonight, his time on the court may have been the difference. I can't understand why he is getting the call over Max. Max has been working his butt off, and getting results at it.
Mystery of the series. Theo is hurting us. He commits fouls like a rookie, and like you said doesn't rebound. WTF is he out there? Play Amir, Hermann, whoever. I even read articles talking about his contrivutions, and Flip praising him. I feel like i'm watching a different series. And your right about our peremiter defense being BS, but that's all i'll say on it because at this point repeating it is just useless. The fact that Tay needs so much help on Pierce is hurting us, and the fact that we put Rip on him is ??iable. We don't even give him different looks. Why not use Max in a Corliss type role? How does he end up with less min than Theo? Logic need not apply i guess.
Gee, I would much rather be talking about Stuckey being the hero tonight. That 3 got us to within 1 with a bit over a minute to go. But it was not to be.</p> <p>Lets start with Prince. Some people don't think Prince needs any rest during the playoffs. They don't care that we don't have a backup for him. Prince defends their best players. He was said up until a few games back to be our best playoff performer. Flip Saunders failure to ever establish a backup for Tay, given a whole season to do so, is inexcusable. Afflalo repeatedly showed him he could do the job, and yet Saunders opted for nobody, just because Afflalo is a rookie. This is not reason at all, just a poor excuse, from one of the very worst coaches in the league. I hate to say it, but even Doc Rivers seems to have passed the guy, putting Flip at 2nd worst in the league.</p> <p>Yes, even in the playoffs, Tay needs rest. This is playoff intensity basketball, which negates the longer timeouts and longer halftimes.</p> <p>We got outrebounded very badly. It was 28-11 in favor of Boston at one point, about a three to one advantage in Boston's favor. But our best rebounder, Amir Johnson, does not play for us. Why? He is young. No reason at all not to play him. Again, just a poor excuse, from a poor coach.</p> <p>Some want me to say Sheed had a bad game, despite making 6 three pointers. Yes, I wish he went inside more too, but hey, those were wide open 3's, he kept making them. In contrast, Tay would not take wide open triples when he could have, and that hurt us. Now, in case anyone does not know this, you get 3 points for making a 3 pointer. I do not like Dyess's long two pointers, which he generally does not score enough points for us to negate the fact he draws no fouls from those shots. Tonight, Sheed scored a lot of points, so he had a decent game. And he did a credible job guarding Garnett. In contrast, they actually guarded Dyess tonight, and he got virtually nothing for us. And his defense was non-existent. Worse, Boston pretty much announced that they would be attacking Dyess, and Flip did nothing at all about it.</p> <p>Having a deep front line makes attacking the players on a frontline pointless. But we don't have a deep front line. We would, if Flip played Amir. But Amir is young, so Flip won't play him. And you also saw Flip's real stripes in regards to Maxiell. He really does not like playing him either, as he is also a young player.</p> <p>Theo sure played a lot. Nothing great. Nothing all that bad except for those two badly missed free throws by him. Speaking of missed free throws, those two missed by Dyess turned out to be huge as our comeback in the fourth stalled just short.</p> <p>Hunter played a lot too. He made a couple of nice plays. But he played too much. For the third game in a row, he did not score. Now, if someone out there thinks that Afflalo should not play, despite being our best perimeter defender, because he does not score enough, then why cheer for Hunter to play. Hunter gives you a few good plays on the ball, and then nothing otherwise. Afflalo gives you a good solid perimeter player every play. Afflalo gives you a guy moving well without the ball on offense every play. Much more consistent play from Afflalo. But Afflalo is young, so does not play.</p> <p>Stuckey had a pretty darn good game. Not great, but he made outside shots, got to the line, and was a pest on D here and there.</p> <p>JMAX played fine while in, but Flip, in his utter wisdom, played him only 11 minutes as someone pointed out. He did come out for foul trouble initially, but he ended up having a couple of fouls to give.</p> <p>Billups is not healed. Our team did poorly for the most part while he was in. Billups did though have quite a good spurt there in the 4th to help make it very close at the end. But I doubt him playing is going to heal that hamstring any faster.</p> <p>Rip started out pretty cold, got hot in the 2nd half. He suffered a pair of minor injuries late in the game and kind of disappeared on us. A poke in the eye not caught by the officials was one, and some kind of arm injury from an entanglement with Allen was the other. Neither injury kept him out for long, but he was really scoring well before these injuries.</p> <p>Well, now we are down 3-2 in the series. We are fully capable, with Billups not even playing, to drub this team the next two games. Thats the good news. But the bad news - our coach is Flip Saunders. Which means most likely he will exclude our best rebounder and our best perimeter defender from the next game. Most fans don't seem to notice that we won all year with Afflalo in the rotation. Most fans don't seem to notice that our best stretch in the playoffs so far has been the four straight easy wins while Afflalo was in the rotation. This team is not nearly as good without him. Oh well, if the fans don't care, don't pay attention, don't speak up, then how can they complain about Flip giving this series away.</p>
Lee I hear ya. Most feel that Amir and Afllollo won't make a difference, but we will never know if we get ousted in game six without either of them seeing any action on the floor. We are getting out rebounded almost 3 to 1 and getting beat to the paint and you don't even put them in there for 2-3 minutes??? Sometimes these players make a difference Flip.. Might as well as have left them at the hotel..
Mistake 1: We take Maxiell out and lose his energy. Mistake 2: Again, we are incredibly slow to stop Perkins and make an adjustment. Mistake 3: Our rotations are too slow. We need to sub more quickly in and out to keep up the pace. Stuckey has now earned major minutes. Hunter was great on defense. Tay has to take the open look. He has disappeared. Billips has to look for the 3 ball. We need to take the open jumpers. We got killed on the boards. Dyss didn't have it so get some energy in there. If Rip is ok, we will be fine...
I will continue to repeat: the Celtics are extremely beatable, if we run them into the ground. Which means Prince has to sit and CB/Stuckey combination continues to drive. Let us not forget, their run was with Prince on the bench. Hunter looks to have his role: the freelancer who hassles everything in sight. He keeps his own players challenged to give more on defense. Game turners:KG hitting at least 3 desperate shots with no time left.Big time threes by Allen and I can believe he had 29 points!Perkins will not have another game like this, since Dyess will come out strong and the weakness of Prince should make way for JMax.Rivers will no longer play his bench and if we are unfortunate, then the Laker's should thank us.Rondo and their point guard problems have been exposed. With his translucence IQ, the attenuation of putting away opponents will never be there for the Celtics, no matter what their lead. Again, if we are unfortunate, then Phil Jackson should thank us.CB has finally stepped it up. He had only one timid moment where he choked on finishing.Stuckey should have sent a rocket up there on his last free throw. But my, my, my...what an education he is getting.Bad luck with some time outs. Rip with his eye poke, and Prince calling that last time out with slightly less than a minute left. Flip will never be out coached under two minutes. The luck of the Irish this time around.coda: Can someone please relay to Sheed that in order to win the brass ring, we don't need his attempts to dominate his presence outside of the 25 foot range throughout the entire game. His constant picks in this area does not legitimize his staying presence...making Dyess forelornly looking for the stairway-to-heaven.
Very dissapointing. I really thought the Pistons would pull that one out. Its really quit amazing comming back like that but in the end Garnett continued his %1000 FT shooting and Ray Allen hits that prayer of a shot. Then of course the Pistons pick that time to stop executing. I am fairly confident of a game 6 victory but the Pistons have to start rebounding better. It was like Boobie Gibson all over again with Perkins there ( Did he have to pick game 5 of the ECF to have his career game? ) Nice job by the refs effectivly neutralizing our star of game 4 Dyess with cheap fouls. Just when I thought they were on the up and up. Our frontcourt size is just getting exposed. Could not believe Prince was playing PF, did a decent job. Goes to show how much more powerfull Duncan was as he ate Tay for lunch when LB tried that. I don't know if we are going to win this series, would be nice to at least get past win #10.
The day the Theo story came out, I knew it was going to be a big mistake. Amir had really just firmly planted himself into the rotation. The bench was rolling. Remember the Stuckey - Afflalo - Hayes - Amir - Sheed lineup that did so well for a while there? The rotation was finally good. The Pistons were streaking (won 16 of 19 leading into Theo's first game). Then as soon as Theo came into the picture the rotation fell apart. He had one or two solid games when he got here and was instantly handed the backup job. Even in front of Max at times, who has earned that spot over the last 3 years. I guess a young guy doesn't earn the coach's trust over Vet scrubs until they're carrying the team in the conference finals (See Stuckey, Rodney). It's quite frustrating that they're killing us on the glass and in the paint, yet our best rebounder/shotblocker (by the numbers) rides the pine. Can't stop penetration? Let's glue the guy who contains it the best on the team to the bench.
To me, 2-3 was further than where I estimated in this series the Pistons could capable to go with Flip at the helm. Correct me if I'm wrong, to be in The Finals are rewards / compensation from the league to teams who did the best to attempt to buy a champion which is not likely in the Pistons' case that I would credit most.
I just watched the pressers. Can someone explain why KG and Pierce look scared?
According to CSN, he can't untie his shoes, or button his shirt, and had to leave with his arm in a sling. X-Rays were negative, but there's a good chance that his SHOOTING arm is going to swell way up. ------------------ Don't know the reliability, but I'm nervous. I remember the last time he hyper extended it, and his shooting was miserable.
I didn't see any hyperextension on the replay. Who knows how bad Rip really is. Right now he looks like the guys on the playground that miss shots and then immediately start limping. At this point in time, I wouldn't be surprised if the mentality to have an excuse for losing is so great that Rip decided to make one up.
No rebounds no rings. I'm hard pressed to feel bad about last night other than about the losing part. They played hard and with some exceptions played well. Boston is just really good. Choices now are to give in to "we played as well as we could" stuff and let them roll on in Detroit, or to build on last night, knowing you can score on them, and take the last two. I don't think it's over.
I heard about people like you....giving credit to the team that won. There will be no more of that!
Being down 3-2 to these guys is unacceptable. I just don't know anymore if we can put together two wins in a row. Rip's arm has to be a concern now as we head home. I just don't see the Celtics rolling over and playing dead. We have to hold the wooden stake over their hearts and...pound them in game six..Pistons 106-93...
I think you and other board members commented at this time how the pickup of Theo would compromise playing time for Amir (and Max). It was unfortunate because Flip's knee always jerks in the direction of playing a mediocre veteran over a better younger player, and not even giving spot minutes to the younger player as a game-time adjustment to what is happening on the court. The acquisition of Theo by the Pistons just played into Flip's stubborn conservatism. If we had not picked him up, Flip would have been forced to give Amir and Max more minutes. While Theo seemed decent during the few regular season games he played for us, he is over the hill for playoff intensity basketball.
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