Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TaS, Oct 23, 2009.
Are there some good examples of that working out?
The rule changes were made after the completion of the 2005 season when the Pistons lost to the Spurs. They were not made right after they won the title.
Thanks, Roscoe. Still holding it down for the Red White and Blue in LA. Enjoying the Indian Summer out here.
TaShawn nailed it. We can't defend anything at all. We might score 120 and lose on a regular. Joe D isn't a fool, unless he is a lucky fool. Somebody is getting moved, but who will step up to be Joe's huckleberry? Who wants to give him a bruising defender (or two) for anything we are able to offer?
I am starting to wonder if Joe didn't make a huge mistake this off season.
Barbara Strisand and James Brolin. His birth name was Guy Charron...
Of course one could argue that we already tried that during the 90's but overall the teams were never very good.
For a team seemingly getting away from defense their head coach sure does talk about it a lot. So they signed 2 guys not known for their defense. Who did they lose? Afflallo and Amir have been glorified on this board to the point of non-realistic expectations.
I don't see this as a hopelss situation... the goal is by this time next year we will have acquired a defensive presence in the middle... either thru trade or draft.
This player does not have to be a strong offensive player... just a mobile shot blocker that is strong enough to hold postion down low (not 35 years old).
Joe has added the offensive pieces... one trade of offense for defense... then adding an intimidating big.... we may be back in the mix by next year.
Before the trade deadline, we'll be sending Rip, JMax and Kwame to Spurs for Tim Duncan. The salaries work out and the Spurs want to get as much as they can from Duncan before his trade value goes down due to age. We get a defensive-minded big man. Spurs get a proper insurance policy for Manu, a high-energy PF and a much younger #1 draft pick. It's a win-win situation.
I don't think so. Looking at the increase in foul rates and points per game, I'd say the 2005 season is when the hand checking rule change came into effect.
It was also the first year the Suns and their high octane offense burst onto the scene.
The evolving rule enforcement may change the type of defense that you have to play, but whichever teams play the best defense under those constraints will still vie for the title (as proven by the last several years).
If there is no hand checking, then we either need quicker perimeter players or supreme shot blocking/ a paint enforcer. I don't see Joe trying to find defensive players to fit the new rule calling.
We have the inverse of what would be ideal. Our perimeter players are oversized and give up drives (Stuck 6'5/Rip 6'7/Tay 6'9" and lanky) and our interior players are mostly way under 7 feet tall with issues.
In our glory year, oversized perimeter players were great. CB,Rip,Tay all could grab and hold and they were tall enough that they could deter jump shots and post ups. Their man could drive by them, but with Wallace and Wallace enforcing the no fly zone, they were probably better off forcing a jump shot.
Even without the rule changes, we obviously can't be what we were. No shame in that. Everyone got older and lost some of the fire. So I'm not saying that we replicate that model exactly, but instead build the best defensive team that we can under the current circumstances.
It's almost as if Joe knows we are screwed, so he's going for cheap entertainment value for profitability. But then he does things that make me think twice, like forcing Kuester to talk about defense a lot, and bringing back Ben Wallace (presumably as a defensive mentor). The emphasis seems futile with the other moves he's made.
True... it seemed like immediately after Keuster said the primary focus is on defense is when we started giving up 114 pts per game...
extra focus does not necessarily correlate with abilities.
Walter- put down the
I think the ability is there, no doubt. It's the will and drive we are still lacking. We've had this conversation before, but so much of your team defense depends on the mentality of each individual, and we don't have any tenacity, and I hate to say it, but getting paid fresh contracts isn't going to bring that out of Chuck V and Ben G.
Perhaps Chucky Atkins can teach our guards defensive dribbling.
Hey Dre, I am still going over and over in my mind whether or not to get League Pass or not.
If I get it, I don't won't to regret it if the pistons go on 10 game losing streaks.
However, Dre you have given me hope, so I think I may go on and order it and worry about the consequences later.
I ordered League Pass in four installments. I'm happy with my choice. If anyone is sitting on the fence, just look at the National TV schedule. Especially if you are playing in a fantasy basketball league and would like to catch a glimpse of your players actually playing the game of basketball instead of just gleaning their stats everyday, you pretty much gotta have League Pass. Really, it depends on 1) if you want to see the Pistons this year because you aren't going to see them on National TV or local if you don't live in Michigan 2) if you are an NBA fan that likes teams and players beyond the major markets and the elite teams. For people like me, League Pass is like an oasis in a desert. And when you think of it, it's only $28 a month or something with the Early Bird special. That's not even a tank of gas per month for six months. It's way worth it. I hope you get it ArmyGirl so we can hear your insights in chat this year!
I think the concept that defense is all about attitude is true, but with a few caveats. Basically, if you are an athlete and you fit within the height and weight box for a particular position, then you should be able to be a good defender if the determination is there and if you are properly instructed.
Then, the questions are:
1) Do we have athletes that are the right size with the right athleticism?
2) Does he have the desire to be a good defender?
3) Has he been instructed properly?
4) Has he put in the necessary work (drills, film study, etc) to be able to execute what the coaches tell him?
There are a few guys who probably strike out with #1. With #2, it is tempting to project your own attitude toward players and think that they can tap into that desire, but in reality, if a guy hasn't done it by now, they probably never will (Darko/ Kwame for example... they are good defenders, but the pilot lights seem weak). #3- some of our players probably haven't had the best instruction or had coaches that emphasized defense before now. And #4, we probably have guys like Stuckey, who will turn out to be good defenders in the future, but it might take them a few years of improvement.
Reputation is a big intangible for defensive players. Ben did, and even still does get away with things other players do not.
Well Said Roscoe. Alot of it depends on what the officiating will let you get away with on defense and what they will tolerate from your defensive opponent when you are on offense.
I know this may come as a shock to some of you but Austin Daye is not going to get the same calls that Lebron is going to get.
At least not the first few weeks of the season.
i have commented on defense being all atttitude and effort and i stand by that.... I will admit that the guy can't just wake up and decide to be a great defender and even with years of work there not going to be a lock down defender....
BUT, I think anybody with athletic ability and the isn't totally oversized by the guy there defending can become a decent defensive player that when playing with 4 other guys also giving max effort on the defensive end will make the team a decent defensive team, and with the offensive players we have now should be enough to win more games then not. Not a championship team at this point.... but a team that should make the playoffs.
yep there are games when you would look at the boxscore and see ben with 1 or 2 fouls while he spent 40 mins inside the guys jock he was defending.... not that i am on the amir bandwagon like alot of folks around here, but amir would foul out in 5 mins with that type of defense.
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