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ESPN: Chauncey Billups, the disposable superstar

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Omaha Piston, May 11, 2009.

  1. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Interesting read. Honestly, I think the trade was a mistake - or at the very least, very badly mishandled. I don't think we should've re-signed Rip when we did, because it ended up looking pretty bad. Also, Ben Wallace left on his own. He made his own choice, so he shouldn't really gripe about how things ended.

    Chauncey is a much better captain than Rip could ever hope to be. Rip set a pretty bad example this year, whining and pouting, and just never being a leader like a captain is supposed to be. If anyone should've been traded it should've been Rip; but because of that extension and his attitude this past season his trade value is shot.
     
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    I know my view of him plummeted. I still think he has trade value though and was able to bounce back after a month or so.
     
  3. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Completely. There was no guarantee either way.

    I disagree though; too many new variables to predict a repeated result.
     
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It just seems that with whatever ways they come up with to spend their cap space the Pistons are going to be doing a lot of work to possibly get back to the unacceptable level of this last group.

    Yes, you couldn't keep these guys together forever, but could they have gotten more for Billups or whoever they decided to trade? A lot needed to fall in place for the last group to come together and it seems kind of silly to think it is going to be totally rebuilt in a few years without a trace of any of these guys.

    I don't know why I'm supposed to be so gung ho for this rebuild when since the 05-06 season they've had a great foundation in place but could never do the little things to put them over the top. Now they're going to replace everything in one fell swoop and it will be better than what they've had?
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, I understood that Ernie.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Do we have any other choice?
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    When you look at the Lakers, Nuggets, Magic, and Cavs, who is a shoe-in to win the Title? Cavs-Lakers have the best chance, but it would seem that nobody has better than 50/50 odds. Probably 1 in 3 is realistic for a team like the Lakers.

    We won in '04, lost in '05, '06, '07, and '08 with that group of guys. So, we were 1 in 5, or 20% success rate. However we were 1 good 4th quarter from being 2 in 5, or a 40% success rate. The 20% is unacceptable, but the 40% would have been phenomenal.

    I'm fairly confident that we would be headed to the ECF again with CB and preparing for a match-up against Lebron. We would have about a 15%-25% chance of dragging down another trophy.

    My overall point is that isn't too bad. It's a percentage game and not many teams get to the point where they have MJ-Bulls type of dominance.
     
  8. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Because the vet were so good that none of the head coachs cared to look deeper into the bench to find what can they could've done to what they were having which means stay put and no development.

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    Coming to end of last season, most fans over here had good assessment to the roster where who is going to stay, who is trade bait and who is bust but the most important is, and so did Joe, for Joe had hire his head coach whom he was able to managed and the Pistons had played all season long in way for his scouting.
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    The ESPN article had justified the necessity of shaking up the roster. As solid as depicted they had existed I reckon that no established new come player would has a chance to set foot in Detroit which would ruin the team in long run. As swagger as they were, they wouldn't give the head coach too much leeway as upstairs would like to give.
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    JD is human, we gotta understand, he decided to stay away from CB on the flight and in the hotel as the article mentioned because he didn't know whether he could keep his emotion checked when the time had come, no more no less.
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    I'm happy that CB is doing great in Denver, if Detroit could not sparked him for the past years why don't give other teams a chance ? We had our chance of AI but things just didn't come to our way.
     
  9. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    I'm only going to give Joe Dumars a summer, this one. If doesn't do anything and waits for 2010 like other GMs then, I call it a failure.

    He has to have some big trades this summer.

    The big "prizes" aren't coming to be coached by Mr. Curry. Maybe if the Pistons could have at least kept making the ECF, then yes.
     
  10. Omaha Piston

    Omaha Piston Second Round Draft Pick

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    This is what bothers me, the assumption that this crew had nothing left. They did start off 5-0 this season. They did win in Boston, they won in LA, they won in Orlando, they won in San Antonio as well and beat Cleveland. Instead of ridding themselves of Chauncey why not go out and try to add a part? The Lakers went out and got Pau Gasol for absolutely nothing. The Bulls added Salmons and Miller for basically nothing as well.

    One would argue that had CB not gotten hurt vs Orlando last year the Pistons could have beaten Boston and then would have gotten LA.
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Let's get something straight:
    Even WITH Chauncey (and perhaps even another bench guy added during the season), the Pistons would NOT have made it past the 2nd round this season.

    Ummm, what's that definition of insanity again???
     
  12. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Bingo. Great point. I was thinking this but could not have said it as well as you.

    It's quite obvious the tremendous upside of Billups, seeing what an impact he has had on the Nuggets. For me personally, I would have kept Billups, Rip, and Tay together. I would have had Billups teach Stuck everything LB taught him. I would have held on to Antonio and Sheed for three reasons. #1, their teaching skills and knowledge. #2, their humility to come off the bench, and #3, I forgot. I would then package our bench players and some future draft pics to get another seasoned vet or two. If we had done these things, I don't hold to the theory that we couldn't have gotten past Cleveland. Nothing is gauranteed but I would have liked our chances.

    We would have Billups replaced as a starter with Stuck in a few years, we could have Amir or someone like Orlando's Chandler to replace Sheed in a few years, and then we would have had several years to find Rip's replacement. And if we failed at accomplishing any of those three, we would immediately begin working on replacing the mistake. Plus at that time, we could have three seasoned dinosaurs coming off the bench: Billups, Rip, and Sheed, to give us 15 minutes a game. Three proud teachers watching their students grow as they sit the pine. We just needed a little tweaking. We didn't need to cut the head off.
     
  13. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree that we would have been in the ECFs again. I think we woulda handled Atlanta, Orlando or a Boston squad who's missing KG. Cleveland on the other hand? We couldn't beat them when they were a shadow of the team they are now. King James owns the Pistons and the main reason (I think) is that we have no one to put a body on him. Tay guarding LaBron was like Manute Bol wrestling King Kong Bundy. No way can he stop him! Our next line of business (aside from the holes we have at Center, Power Forward, and Point Guard) should be to find a SF that can body up LaBron. In case nobody has figured it out yet ( or in case he goes out West) the road to the Championship is going through LaBron for the next 7 years or so.
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Did you guys watch the same games I did?

    I'm not certain that Billups + Stuckey makes us 2 rounds better than Stuckey and Bynum.

    The problem is that Tay and Sheed didn't come to play.
     
  15. Omaha Piston

    Omaha Piston Second Round Draft Pick

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    That's your opinion, although based off the last 6 years and the Pistons consistency in the playoffs one could argue the other way. We would have been right there as a possible three seed and we could have beaten Boston with CB and without KG.
     
  16. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    It actually tells us that talent isn't everything. Chemistry, Coaching and Leadership are crucial elements in making a championship contender.
     
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Good posts peoples.

    You can rationally make the argument that the Pistons could have beaten the C's last year if Posey switched sides. That kind of goes to my point of being one player away or not doing the little things to win.

    Buck is making the point of adding vets to the bench and Dumars has had a reluctance to use the full MLE since he signed Dyess (or Nazr, I guess). Really though, how much of a difference is there between the MLE and what they've paid Amir these last few years? There is some validity to stacking the team so to speak 7-8 deep if that is all you're going to play anyway. I like Kwame, but don't pay him that money if you're not going to play him.

    That being said I think the Pistons would have many of the same problems they have now if they had kept Billups. They would still have no game off the dribble and no one to create any shots. The only difference is Billups is a better player than Stuckey.

    I've been thinking lately that the Piston D isn't as bad as we've thought. Teams like CLE and the C's play good D, but it's not like you can't score on them. The difference is that when you score on them they can also score on you. DET's inability to score may have led to the runs more so then poor D.
     
  18. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree with you but you need to think about how Chauncey leaving impacted not just our team from an ability and skill level but also on how the team approached the games, confidence, etc. We could have had Stuckey backing up Rip and Bynum backing up CB. I agree with those who say that Billups may not have played the inspired ball he's been playing in Denver but the possiblity exists. Chauncey was a leader and without him we were without a leader.

    The games that were played shouldn't even come into play in this discussion because Chauncey wasn't a part of our team for them and we're talking as if he was a part of our team. The entire regular season would have played out differently therefore the playoffs would have been seeded differently and the match-ups would have been different. EVERYTHING would have been different so to say "were you watching the same games" is mute.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We had the 2nd worst offense in the league. In order to make up for that, we probably would have needed the greatest defense in the history of the NBA just to get out of the first round.
     
  20. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    Arguing what would have happened if Chauncey was still here is an exercise in the hypothetical. So many variables go into a season, you could make an argument for us winning the title with him, or getting the first pick in the draft.

    The only real evidence that is there is the past. The past three seasons, the Pistons failed to make it to the finals. The team is one year older this year, and a lot of fans argue that they lost to inferior opponents in at least 2 of those 3 years. Based on this evidence, it is unlikely that the Pistons could have made it past the elite teams in the east this year with Chauncey, especially when you consider that Cleveland is a lot better this year.

    The past, however, is not necessarily an indicator of future performance, so even this arguement falls flat.
     

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