ESPN: Chauncey Billups, the disposable superstar

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Omaha Piston, May 11, 2009.

  1. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    You're right, we can't assume anything.

    But we KNOW sticking with the same-old, same-old wasn't working anymore. The NBA is about championships, not 50 win regular seasons and getting bounced in the playoffs every year.

    Good, bad or ugly; at least the next 18 months or so are going to be interesting. I'm hopeful that Joe can pull the trigger on the right moves!
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    But who is this player that Joe will get via FA/Trade that is someone you can build around ?
     
  3. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I'd go with Stoudemire
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We don't really know that either. We do know that it didn't work for 2005 through 2008. And in those years, we don't know if injuries derailed us or if it was just that we weren't good enough. It may have worked this year with another try and some new blood, we will never know.

    If you look at the Cavs since they got Lebron, we can look at a longer sample size than that.

    2004: 35-47, 5th in Central
    2005: 42-40, 4th in Central
    2006: 50-32, 2nd in Central
    2007: 50-32, 2nd in Central
    2008: 45-37, 2nd in Central

    If you stop right there, you may conclude that whatever they are doing isn't working. The Superstar model can't get them over the hump. They peaked and are on the decline. Z is injury prone. Ben Wallace is past his prime. Wally Z's contract is an albatross, etc.

    They rearranged the furniture a little bit, kept Lebron, Z, Ben, Wally, Varejao, and here they are dominating.
     
  5. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    We all seem to be having a discussion based on "what ifs" and "shoulda, coulda, wouldas". We (myself included) are probably best served to stop debating hypothetical situations and prolly just move forward.

    Just as I cannot predict what Joe will actually do with all this cap space that the Pistons have, nobody can predict with any certainty what "woulda" happened this year if Chauncey stayed in Detroit.

    All I can do is form an opinion. And my opinion is this:
    Based on what I have seen by watching the Detroit Pistons over the last three seasons along with watching their main EC competition (teams like Boston, Cleveland and Orlando); I strongly believe that Detroit is in need of a complete overhaul in respect to their roster (as well as their coach, but THAT is a whole other story). In my opinion (again it's MY opinion), the Pistons as constituted at the begining of the 2008/2009 NBA season were not capable of proceeding past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

    I'm really looking forward to a "no sacred cows" Extreme Makover Pistons Edition that will hopefully occur over the next 6 - 18 months.
     
  6. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree BDL. The changes cannot come soon enough for me. My problem with them this year was NOT that they were losing, but that they seemed like they didn't really care much that they were losing.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would have liked to have seen what would have happened with CB/Rip/Tay/Amir/Sheed and a bench of Bynum, Stuck, Afflalo, Herrmann, Maxiell, Dyess, and Brown.

    It started off well. We would have had the best starting guards and bench bench guards in the entire league. We would arguably had the best big man bench roster in the league too. Amir could have been a garbage/ energy man and would have benefitted from CB's leadership. Our defense would have been spectacular. Our scoring would have been A-OK with CB spreading the floor, drawing fouls, getting everybody touches in their sweetspots.

    Getting us over the hump would have been a serious bench with attacking guards and a big man to fit any occasion.


    In the ESPN article, it was telling what CB's reaction was when he heard about the trade. He thought, why would they do that when we are going to win a Championship? He's no dummy. He still thought we had the personel to do it. We definitely were favored over Denver at that point.


    The consolation is that we are flexible and Joe is in a good position to pull off something aggressive and interesting. But chemistry is not built in a year and there is no guaranty that we will be able to get a Billups-calliber leader in the next 10 years.
     
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    CB is starting to unseat LB as the official folk hero.

    Would he have stopped the aging of Sheed,Dyess? Caused Tay to not be tired ( again ) ...

    Here is the reality as I see it. Prince would still be a wimp, Sheed/Dyess would still have been 1 year older - plus Dyess would not have had that month off. Sheed would still be taking his anger out on the coach during important playoff games. Stuckey would still be Stuckey. Amir/Maxiel would still have been disappointments.
     
  9. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Couldn't agree more. I hate how our season turned out... but there's no way this team was winning the championship this year, CB or no CB. And you didn't even mention Curry... I'm pretty sure he was still going to be the worst coach in the league.
     
  10. lapeapod

    lapeapod First Round Draft Pick

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    Reading the article just made me appreciate what Mr. Big Shot brought to Detroit Basketball. What team wouldn't benefit from having Chauncey Billups be a part of them? Since the Pistons are out of the playoffs I've been rooting for Denver and they have a few knuckleheads on their team (Kenyon Martin, J.R. Smith) but how can you not enjoy their style of play? I'm a big Birdman fan and he's so entertaining and plays with heart and flair.

    Chauncey is a feel good story and the most surprising thing I learned was the mentor relationship of Sam Mitchell with Chauncey. I have new respect for Sam Mitchell after reading the article and I hope he gets to coach another team in the near future.
     
  11. NTC

    NTC First Round Draft Pick

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    Very well said.
     
  12. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I think its just easier to chalk it up to . . . well, we wouldn't have won the championship anyway, etc. I'm not discounting that opinion. I can see why people would think that, but IMO it's not that clear cut, and probably easier than having to look at the alternative b/c it's too painful.

    If this team is back to even the level it was with the old core in two seasons, i will eat my words.

    Now it just looks like we have a poorly-thought out rebuilding construct and cap space IMO that's just going to lead to disappointment.

    Rebuilding is one thing. Giving away assets is another.

    edited to add;

    If DEN gets to the finals and beats CLE, that would be the ultimate irony, and discredit the theory, but in no way do i want that to happen.
     
  13. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    My take is that if Chauncey stayed...we win 52 games and go out in a hard fought 2nd round series. Chauncey became inspired to play in Denver and it showed. I don't think THAT Chauncey woulda suited up this season for the Pistons. The only way we coulda improved upon that prediction would have been to have signed a bonafied player last off season. Joe chose to blow up the team instead. My guess is that he figured the odds were against AI making a difference with the organization. That's a whole lot of speculation...Hopefully not a whole lot of BS....
     
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Go Nuggets!
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This was arguably Sheed, Rip and Tay's worst seasons in 4 years. There was no way we were going to win a title. Denver's surrounding cast is infinitely superior to ours. Our guys were burnt out and uninspired. I think anyone who believes we had any better chance than the last 3 years is trying to manufacture something that isn't there.

    And I'm not trying to be mean, just honest. If you watched this team for 81 games as I did this year, this was barely a playoff team. If you add Chauncey, they don't become champions. He's not that good, and Curry is not that good.

    It probably won't be, but it won't matter because the old core is the past. We weren't going to be as good next year as 2007 if we kept Billups. Our young guys suck and our old guys are getting old.

    There is no irony if Denver wins the title. When Portland traded Sheed to Atlanta and then us, it wasn't ironic that we won the title. We were in a position to take advantage of Sheed at that time. Denver is in a position to take advantage of Billups. I'm pretty sure Denver can't beat Cleveland in the Finals, if they even get there. But in the event they win, it's no slap in our face.

    I'm pissed that Joe let this run down get this far, and totally wasted opportunities with Iverson to prove that Stuckey is not a point guard or #1 option. But now that the demolition is on, burn this mfer down. Start with fresh hungry faces that compete each night, don't complain to the refs and fight for minutes. Time to make the stowaways walk the plank. Arrrr!
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    If you look at Denver they give it 100% out there. You can't say that about the Pistons the past few years. They have a lot of weapons and CB adds to it. Its been a great fit for them.
     
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    I could not write it any better than that.
     
  18. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    With the changes, turmoil, no PG, etc. there is no way IMO that you can assume or it's even likely that those 3 would have played the way they did this season.

    I don't see how you can make the comparison with the team this year vs. the team w/ CB. It's completely different.

    Except DEN has become DET and DET has become DEN. And all it took was essentially switching one player. No one would say DEN was more talented than us before the trade. Why are they now? And all of a sudden our players are of so much less talent?

    And in an even more ironic twist, DEN is now in the WCF, and DET got swept in the 1st round while struggling to make the PO's. Did DEN improve that much in a year? Was getting rid of AI that major of a move?

    That's probably what's going to happen at this point.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    At the start of last season, Vegas had the Pistons at 15-1.

    At the start of this season, the Pistons moved up to 8-1. The Denver Nuggets were 25-1.


    So, was Vegas trying to manufacture something that wasn't there?


    Even Dime had the Pistons above the Cavaliers.
    Updated Odds to Win the 2008-09 NBA Championship | Dime Magazine (www.dimemag.com) : Daily NBA News, NBA Trades, NBA Rumors, Basketball Videos, Sneakers

    Pistons 11-1
    Cavs 14-1
    Nuggets 60-1



    We had a shot. The fans were just spoiled and bored and Joe D believed that he could do no wrong.


    At least have a conversation with Chauncey before you trade him. Don't give his number to the new guy who's main attribute is his expiring contract. Don't guilt trip Dyess into coming back into your rebuilding project.
     
  20. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Has anyone of us heard this before ?
    The moral of their relationship is, fans can see only 1/8 of the whole pack.
     

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