ESPN: Chauncey Billups, the disposable superstar

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Omaha Piston, May 11, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was a very interesting part of that article. It was amazing to think of the chain reaction of influence that mature vets can have on younger players. But the key to it was that Chauncey was a player who was always very concerned with improvement. He wanted to be good and he was trying to do everything right, but he was just lost.
  2. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Billups and Iverson switched teams. Denver and Detroit switched records. Nuff said.

    :hoops::hoops::hoops::hoops::hoops:
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You're right, it is different. But it is not championship quality.

    It's not talent. The game is not played on paper. Our guys have a lot more mileage on them, and their attitude has sucked for a couple years now. One thing about the Thuggets, they aren't afraid of anyone. The Pistons have been playing scared since Ben left.

    Losers are happy to settle for second place. Our guys seemed a little too content since winning the title. While I am not impressed by what Joe has done with the roster since 2005, I do believe he is not happy with finishing second and is making moves to address that which is a good thing.

    The easiest thing he could have done was not make that trade. He could have kept Stuckey behind Billups and trotted out the same old, same old from the last 4 seasons, lead by Coach Zombie.

    Look, if Billups couldn't make Flip a champion, he was not going to make Curry one. And I am skeptical that he can make George Karl a champion.
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    Thats why its not good to gamble on sports.

    We had just tied the NBA record for the most consecutive Conference finals series losses at 3. Thats why I think its tough to call us spoiled. That dang switch mentality.
  5. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Are you sure that you are just skeptical about that ? :)
  6. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Good post.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I mean spoiled in that we expected to at least get to the ECF and if we didn't win it all, we would be playing the blame game instead of being happy that we had a chance.

    Flip Saunders was fired after 3 straight ECF appearances. We had high aspirations, let's put it that way.
  8. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Which is why Joe should have traded Tay and Rip for cap space and kept CB. Then we'd have cap space but with CB to build on. Now we have cap space and nothing to build on, or even worse, stuck with Rip and Tay because they're prior year has hurt their value.
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What do you base this on? To me, no one seemed more content to ride the wave of the "core" than Dumars. He's done nothing since Dyess.

    Would he have done anything if tickets were selling early this year?
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I guess one year makes a big difference, but did people think they had no chance at a title after they won in BOS to tie the series at 1-1?

    How 'bout when they were leading mid-way through the 2nd quarter of G5 of the same series?

    I think Lpg is right when she says it is soothing for people to justify the trade by saying they wouldn't have won anyway. It is easier than dealing with the fact that it almost without a doubt over now.

    Orlando is Orlando, the C's are not the same. CLE is a bear, but maybe Dumars would have done something crazy like do something to make the team better to get by them.

    The Pistons problems were winning their conference. If they got past that I think they were looking good.

    All this stuff about cap space would be great if they were one player away. Spare me the nonsense about Tyson Chandler, Chris Kaman or Emeka Okafor being The Answer.
  11. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree.

    But Joe made CB happy by returning him to Denver.

    Also, it appears that Iverson is very happy according to the Denver Post. Who would have thought the success of the Nuggets would please and excite AI and his agent so much?

    So...everyone's happy.

  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Joe, like a lot of the posters here, thought we were one player away. I disagreed. Which is why I pointed out I don't like his moves since 2005. I have never been afraid to criticize Dumars. I may not have been constantly beating that drum, but when you're the forum guy, sometimes you have to put your opinion aside so other people can voice theirs.

    While it is possible that was his motivation, I prefer not to consider it, because it means he is an idiot.

    I'm not free passing Joe at all. I'm just so so so tired of the internet absolutist paradigm. It is possible to have a nuanced position that says, "gee I was wrong about Billups, he does still have gas in the tank, but if he was here, I don't think we would see this performance", instead of

    OMG JOE DUMARZ IS TEH WORST GM IN THE UNIVERSE. CHAUNCEY BILLUPS IS A HOFER. PISTONS ARE THE DUMBEST TEAM EVAR.

    I dunno, I guess people don't listen to the podcasts. I have easily an hour of material with The Low and others covering this stuff. I'm unhappy with Dumars, I'm unhappy with Curry, but I will not give the players a free pass. These guys got paid like the best and played like chumps. And only so much of that can be on Joe. I sure as hell didn't see much pride out there this season except for Dice. In fact, Dice played with so much heart and pride, he totally exposed Tay, Rip and Sheed for what they are. Half-assers.

    In a bad economy, Joe has burned his house down. He has nowhere to go but up, and he's running out of emotional capital to parlay into time. Ticket sales will be down. Interest in the franchise will be down. Like everyone else, they overextended themselves during the boom, drinking the koolaid that the economy was never going to slow down again.

    Anyway, I don't even understand what I am supposed to be defending my opinion on anymore.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I really don't see how Rip is a half-asser.

    The guy is all hustle and emotion. He even scored a ton off the bench when he was asked to be a ball hog for the good of the team.

    Plus, he did it all with that nagging groin of his.
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Since when did we measure effort in Detroit based on scoring or the offensive side of the ball?

    The last time Rip played defense was when he covered CB in the second half against Denver and shut him down.
  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree with your sentiment regarding Rip.

    I think he's a great 2nd tier star and a wonderful complimentary player on a team that posses an "alpha dog". IMO - he's a wonderful asset to possibly include in a trade.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If you look at my post, you'll notice that I measured it in terms of "hustle" and "emotion" and added a footnote after the word 'even' that also noted his scoring.

    Then I went on to emphasize that he had a nagging groin injury.


    If I had to further point to his effort this year, I'd point out that he was 2nd on the team in production, 2nd in defensive production allowed on the man he was guarding (barely behind Tay), 1st in net production, and 1st in Roland Rating, which obviously takes a large number of things into account. He also had the best year of his entire career in assists per minute played (a very unselfish stat) while having his 2nd best year of his career in turnover avoidance.

    He fell flat in the Playoffs, but that was only 4 games against the best defensive team in the NBA.

    Rip's PPG declined by 6.2 points against CLE from his season average.
    Similarly, Joe Johnson's PPG declined by 6.4 points against CLE from his season average.
  17. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I'd much rather trade Prince than Hamilton, but I don't think Prince has much value anymore. He's been exposed this year more than anyone else.
  18. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Completely agree. With interior help D fading each year since Ben left, the more apparent he is not 'all that' defensively. His offense is mediocre, at best. At least he has his iron-man thing still going for him :P
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Prince definitely still has trade value. Maybe not as much as before the season, but there are plenty of teams that would love to have him.

    Very good defender. Tons of experience (Playoff + Championship experience). Still young. Injury free history with incredible durability. Very good ball handler. High bball IQ. Quiet leader like Battier. Ability to score in the post. 3-point range.
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Prince would improve the Clippers or the Raptors.

    Edited to add: He would be a good fit for San Antonio too.

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