ESPN Readers Don't Think Much of C-Bill

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, May 11, 2006.

  1. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Of the choice of point guards listed by ESPN Billups comes in dead last. Amazing. Goes to show that winning don't mean squat in most fans eyes. How did Stockton get up so high? He never won squat. I always thought it was the point guards responsibility to guide your team on offense so that they would win!! :eyebrows::eyebrows:

    At least they think a lot of Zeke.

    But it still peaves me that no one considers Michael to have been a point guard. Well I can tell you that he was a guard there is no question about that. He wasn't a point forward. He also controlled the ball most of the time that the Bulls were on offense. So it seems to me that is what a point guard does is control the ball when the team is on offense. I guess Michael scored to much for most people to be considered a point guard. Goes to show how people can't think outside the box. After all John Paxon, B.J. Armstrong and Ron Harper who played along side Michael in Chicago sure as heck weren't point guards.

    Here is the link.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/listranker?id=492
  2. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Stockton over Zeke again...

    argggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Its an honor for Billups to even be on that list. I was expecting to see something dissing him in favor of Barron Davis or Arenas like we saw in the pre-season. Lots of good names on the new list.

    Whats Payton doing on there? I know he was great in his time but he never won anything.
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Max you're absolutely right. C is last or should be close to it on that list, 4 years ago nobody even talks about Chuancey, now in a poll with Magic, The BigO, Walt Frazier, Sheeesh talk about a come up by him and Nash.
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Kgreg - back to back MVP's by Nash kind of puts him on that list whether we agree with it or not.

    Pistons need another title and Finals MVP for Billups then he will be on that list. Even 1 Finals MVP is a rare thing.
  6. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    What a joke that either Nash or Billups is on that list.

    And Stockton is still better than Thomas.
  7. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree that Stockton was a better point than Thomas.
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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  9. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I hated Stockton...............:mad:
  10. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If there was a point guard on those teams, it was Pippen. He brought the ball up and initiated the offense the majority of the time. After that the offense was based more on movement than PG play with Michael tending to have the ball more often than not. The guards listed at the point would only occasionally start the offense, but were mostly there to shoot jumpers.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
    He was the prototype point forward.
    Yeah, I'd rather see KJ or Price on there. But then, how many ESPN readers who vote on these polls can even remember the pre-Shaq NBA?
    To be fair, Davis and Arenas did put up great #s on lesser teams. It is a #s game with the NBA. The sports that celebrate warriors and intangibles are Hockey and Football. I don't think Nash or CB should have been on that poll, but then how would the under 25 voters rank Robertson or Frazier? Cousy or Tiny?

    Stockton is :ohwell: . He's top 12, but looking at the results, how can anyone place him ahead of Finals winners? Strictly on #s? Thomas was a two-time champ and Finals MVP. Frazier was a two-time champ. Even Tiny won a title.
  12. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    how many championships does stockton have? hey he was great at his position but thomas was a winner. it's an honor chauncey was even placed on that list i agree.

    down the line i think chauncey is going to replace kidd on those polls since kidd will have pretty numbers but 0 championships, and chauncey will have 3+
  13. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    There's no way in hell Stockton was better than Zeke. He played longer, but was not better. In case some of you youngins forgot they actually played in the same era and went head to head many times. Zeke owned Stockton MANY times.

    Stockton was good and competitive but was constantly torched by Thomas. The notion that Stockton was better than Thomas is a fallacy that the press and the public continue to perpetuate proving the statement that perception is reality. Statistically head to head, Thomas owned Stockton, but due to Stockton's "career stats" which are helped by the number of years played, Stockton continues to be ranked higher than a guy that won TWO titles and kicked his ass head to head.
  14. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Exactly, Isiah was a winner at every level. I voted in that list and definitely had Thomas ahead of Stockton. A no-brainer.
  15. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Well, at least the ESPN analysts got it right. They chose Magic, then Oscar, then Zeke.

    Sounds about right.
  16. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Personally, I'd leave guys like Oscar and Clyde out of this discussion. Those guys played in an era where there were "guards", no point guards or shooting guards.

    That's something I'd like to know more about: when was it exactly that guards and forwards started to be pigeonholed as "point", "shooting", "small", and "power"? Perhaps the topic of another thread....

    Anyway, Magic was the best PG, and in fact, he gets my vote as the best player in the history of the game, period.

    If we restrict ourselves to "pure" PGs, it's all about Isiah. I take Zeke over Stock any day of the week, but, I don't understand how people can fail to give Stock his due. Yeah okay, he didn't win a championship, but no one can win a championship by themselves. Sometimes the team is there, and sometimes it isn't. No one can deny he made his team competitive game in, game out, year in, year out, for almost two decades. His teams played in the Finals twice. Stockton haters need to open their eyes and realize just how good he was.

    I find it curious how KJ is completely overlooked in these kinds of discussions. His career wasn't very long, but he was crazy good. The fact that the ESPN guys failed to give him a single vote is an indefensible omission in my opinion.

    The other thing the ESPN panel got wrong is putting Nash ahead of GP. Prime "Glove" shuts down Nash completely on offense, while dropping 24 and 9 on the other end. He's lost at least three steps since then, and people forget how incredible he was.
  17. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    :nod:
    Exactly. I have my opinions about Isiah and Stockton, and a couple of others that should have been on the list, but KJ is easily the most ridiculous omission. And I was waiting for someone to defend my third-favorite player of the 90s.
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree that CB should feel good just being mentioned on that list with those all time greats.

    P.S. I hate Payton
  19. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Nash & Billups don't belong in that debate yet, possibly ever.

    Kidd is fringe and fading.

    For those how argue for Mark Price I argue Dennis Johnson & Mo Cheeks.

    Peyton is there cause he has maintained his numbers while playing the 2nd most games of any.

    Other quality guards were Randy Smith, KJ, Jerry West, and one of my personal favorites Fat Lever (master of the triple double)

    Stockton could have and should have been better, though never as good as Zeke. He was a blessed shooter who to the detriment of his team refused to help carry the scoring load. Had Zeke lead Utah in his prime they would have unseated the Bulls once.
  20. Terry T

    Terry T First Round Draft Pick

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    Stat. geek.

    Isiah stats went down when Dumars joined the team and Detroit competed for championships. So, as the team got better Isiah got worse. NOT!

    Isiah did what it took to win. Two rings. Scoreboard.

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