ESPN Readers Don't Think Much of C-Bill

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, May 11, 2006.

  1. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Chauncey is better than Nash, or J Kidd. He just gets snubbed because he couldn't do anything his first 7 years(because teams kept trading him). I would take C-note over any PG in the league right now.
  2. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Is CB better at this point in his career than J. Kidd at his peak.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nash and Kidd are both still playing. Granted Chauncey has one more title than either, and one more Finals MVP but Nash has 2 more League MVPs and Kidd has been decorated in every non-playoff way imagineable. Don't forget, Kidd took a team with Kerry Kittles and Jason Collins/Todd MacCulloch in the starting lineup to the Finals in back to back years.

    The way I usually try to make these comparisons, is to swap the players between the teams. Would Kidd or Nash make the Pistons worse? Would Chauncey make Phoenix better? Would Nash be an improvment over Kidd in NJ? It's not that cut and dried as "this guy is best" in my opinion.

    Some of that was out of his control, and some of it probably wasn't. His talent was never in doubt.
    It would be a toss up for me. I have a lot of respect for Kidd and Nash. They are both very, very good PGs. It's not a case of Platinum, Gold and Silver. It's more like 18 carat, 22, carat and 24 carat Gold. They're all that close.
  4. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    It's pretty even if we swap the pg's to each team.

    Nash:

    Deroit; The team would be worse since Nash plays a much different style than the rest of the group. He doesn't play D, and plays 99% fast break which wouldn't work.

    NJ: The team would almost be the same Nash and Kidd are both good on the fast break. Nash would make NJ a worse defensive team, but he's a better shooter than Kidd.

    Kidd:

    Detroit:The team would be slightly worse. Both Billups and Kidd play good defense, but Kidd is better on the run than on sets, and Detroit depends on Chauncey's shooting ability a lot in late games and Kidd wouldn't be able to provide that consistantly.

    Phoenix: The team would be about the same. Again both Nash and Kidd are good on the break and Kidd's defense will make up for his shooting.

    Billups:

    Phoenix: The team would be worse. Chauncey would give Phoenix just as good as a scoring gaurd or maybe even a better one than Nash, and he's better at D. However Chauncey wouldn't be able to make the whole team great at D and this team is an all out fast break team. Chauncey can run the fast break, but he's more effecient doing both half-court and running the break sometimes.

    NJ: The team will be about the same. The defense will be the same. Chauncey can give Jersey a better scorer, but VC and RJ thrive more on the fast break than half-court sets.

    Basically this shows that each gaurd would be pretty even if they went to the 2 other gaurd's teams, and that each gaurd is best off on the teams they are on right now. What do I know though.
  5. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    i can't see how some people think if you don't win a championship you can't be among the greats. i hear someone saying isiah is better than stockton because he was a winner. well, i think you'll find just about every season of stocktons was a winning season and would have 2 championships if it wasn't for the bulls. (like a lot of guys, because the bulls owned the 90's).

    are you saying that luc longley who won 3 titles is better than patrick ewing who won none? - didn't think so.

    i'm not saying stockton was better than isiah, but defining a player by championships won is not really fair. (darko already has one!)

    price, nash and kidd are all above chauncey at the moment, but that may change by the time CB's career comes to a close.
  6. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    :nod: That should put an end to that argument.

    As for Chauncey, I have said before that he is the best PG in the league right now, and I still believe that. (So obviously, I pick prime Smooth over prime Nash, mostly for CB's defense; if I had any doubts about this they were completely erased after Chauncey destroyed Nash on that Sunday in March.)

    But if we're talking all-time, prime JKidd is the better player. CB's got the edge in scoring -- although JKidd does have a knack for hitting key shots when it matters. I'd say they run the half-court offense about even, but Kidd does it with more consistency. Kidd is definitely better at pushing the ball and making decisions on the break, I feel he's a better defender, and he's a much better rebounder.

    As lemonpen says:

    which is why Nash's two MVPs don't quite seem right to me.
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Great post '89. Nash (deserved or not) has the two MVP trophies only done by one other PG. That's how he sneaks into the discussion.

    @ lemonpen, Cheeks didn't have the #s plain and simple. But you make a great point about DJ. There was an article in a Boston paper about the injustce of Dumars getting in before him. I tend to agree, and if Joe Dumars deserves in as a player, there is no way DJ should not also be honoured as a great PG in the HOF. For this list though, he's gotta be just on the fringe. Like 11 or 12.

    Btw, if KJ deserves consideration for a top 10, shouldn't Mark Jackson?
  8. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Does Dumars deserve to be HoF as a player? I thought he was getting in for his managerial talents as well.

    As a player only, I don't think Dumars is HoF material -- and I'm talking about my all-time favourite player!
  9. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    You didn't take into account their ability to learn new stuff. CB could be taught to run the break better, Kidd might improve his shooting, but Nash isn't likely to grow taller, bulk up and become a better defender.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Eric Snow told me that Chauncey needs to work on his defense.

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