Ex-Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by jzchen, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Flip Murray is a weapon. Plain and simple. The Celts could use him and I guarantee that the Pistons would not be able to keep him out of the paint any better than they could Jason Williams when he was torching Detroit in the Miami series they lost.


    Its easy to pretend he isnt a baller but in reality if he couldnt make an open jumper at his size he wouldnt be in the NBA. Period.
     
  2. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Just like the Pistons couldn't keep him out of the paint when he started for the Cavaliers the same year, right?
     
  3. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    That Cavalier team's talent level is nowhere near the level of the Boston Celtics of this year or the Miami team that won the championship.


    You're comparing apples to oranges.
     
  4. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    just thinking aloud.... why is every person nailed to our bench the answer to all our in game problems and why is every player we can't find time for on court going to be the reason we'll lose in a game/series.....

    If boston beats us in May its not going to because Murrey is the 2nd coming of MJ. for every point he'll score he'll give up 4.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Because we don't have major problems and because we are so deep that we are shedding very good players.

    Nazr and Flip Murray are way better than other team's worst 2 players. When you add Primoz into that, we have basically kicked 3 guys with starting experience out the door. I'm not disputing our logic, but I am also not discounting the possibility that one of these guys could help a contender. Murray is the only left who might still go to a team that is on the brink.
     
  6. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    delfino's line.
    23 points
    38 min
    7-9 fg
    6-7 3point
    3-4 free throws
    5 rebounds
    1 assist
    3 turnovers
    1 block

    delfino is better than hayes. he just needed opportunity and a role. some people thought he couldn't shoot in detroit but it was more like when you shoot 3 times every 4 games it's hard to get a rhythm. fino rebounds better than hayes and defends better than him plus provides ball handling. man it's crazy to imagine delfino with the zoo crew instead of hayes now that would be a good defensive unit.
     
  7. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    sorry your comparing apples and oranges..... hayes is getting the same numbers roughly delfino got in the same mins... if hayes was given more mins every game who's to say his numbers wouldn't be great.

    Every excuse you make for delfino for the last 3 years can now be used to say why Hayes has been ineffective this year. We need a back up not a starting 3, a backup has to be ready to be able to make an impact in 5 mins or 30 mins depending on the night.

    I think its safe at this point to say BOTH of them havn't worked in detroits system and were going to look for another option.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Their stats are not that different. If you prorate Haye's minutes to match CD's, then here is how they look:

    CD/JH
    9.7/9.7 points
    4.6/3.1 rebounds
    1.8/1.0 assists
    0.9/1.0 steals

    .508/.503 eFG%
    25%/18% percentage of shots from the paint

    Their shooting is the same. Carlos is a little more well rounded and definitely plays better defense.

    We probably should have played him last year and kept him, but we didn't and we have a suitable replacement.
     
  9. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    He's inconsistent as well. He'll go next two games without scoring. Just look at his game log.
     
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    same numbers + better defense + better ballhandling = better in my opinion.

    i don't mind us trading him. i just don't think we got equal value for the guy. 2 second rounders is not enough. even if we were only freeing up space for jarvis i don't think he's an upgrade over fino.
    i wouldn't call jarvis consistent either. i also know delfino at least brings intangibles when he's not scoring. jarvis it's either dropping 3 balls or nothing.
     
  11. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Are backup 2/3 fiasco over the past couple years can be blamed on Flip. He has never accepted the game of any backup at this position for Detroit. Reality is, unlike DMC, Delfino has turned into the player people thought he would be. A quality backup, streaky shooter, good D, and can play 3 positions. Delfino would never have developed in Detroit, but I have to bet Joe D isn't too happy about how this has gone down.

    The upside, Joe has learned and is not letting Flip repeat the same crap with our current youngsters.
     
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Aren't you exaggerating a little bit?

    How Delfino plays in Toronto isn't something what flip can control. And Hayes plays less minutes per game than Delfino. And keep in mind that toronto plays more open style than detroit: more shots, more open shots, more rebounds, more turnovers etc (read: more losses and first round exit)
     
  13. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Really?

    So If he scores 20 Chauncey will be in line to break Kobe's 81? Cause Flip can drop 20 on us without blinking in Bostons system.

    All the Pistons have to do is make a few mistakes, which they are known to do. Leave him open, miss a rotation, put him on the line a few times....20 points.

    I'd rather Flip Murray was on Denvers bench right now with JR Smith sitting next to Lindsey than for Boston to have 1 more guy that Chauncey will not be able to stay in front of.
     
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    yes but flip could control how he used delfino in detroit. delfino could have played the same role hayes plays in detroit now except better. it's clear he's a better defender without doubt. also he would have done it cheaper.

    toronto plays an open style but jarvis hayes isn't having problems getting shots up. hayes plays less minutes because he can't play 3 positions like fino. there is no exaggeration that we didn't develop fino like we should have.
     
  15. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    But maybe are things just very simple: open style suits to Fino better than half-court execution. Fan's common mistake is assume that all you need is to develope that player "this way" and problems solved.
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    [​IMG]
    .......
     
  17. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Flip wanted Fino to be consistent with inconsistent minutes. It is only the last handfull of games that I think Flip finally understands. You can't play your bench 10-20 minutes each one game and turn around the next with a bunch of DNP-CD's and expect thme to be consistent. If anything; a young player( like Fino was and is); needs to know he is going to play about X number of minutes at X time of the game. That is what has been the difference in our bench play this year.

    Look what happens to the bench in the second half if Flip screws up the first half substitutions? It takes them longer to get in a rhythm in the second half. This will become less important asthey mature but when they are young; there is nothing like being consistent with them to get consistency out of them.

    Could you imagine Stuck, AA, Delfino, Max and AJ on the floor togehter after getting acquainted with each others games? That would have been awesome!!!!!!!!
     
  18. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Flip has mentioned that for him is that league as league of match-ups: that 's why inconsistent mins for bench last year. Bench was so bad , if you remember , in many games starting 5 had to become back and finish the game cuz bench had lost big lead.
     
  19. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    It's funny how memory changes to suit the intent.
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    the bench wasn't bad last year. it was essentially the same players. it's just that when the bench played last year it would often be after several games of not playing. inconsistent mins = inconsistent production.
     

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