Ex-Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by jzchen, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Iverdone?

    Iverson's suitors aren't chasing a prize
    Randy Hill - Fox Sports

    "Detroit seems like a fine starting point for this examination.
    OK, we're all aware the team that had reached the Eastern Conference finals six years in a row turned into a catastrophe after trading point guard Chauncey Billups to the Denver Nuggets for Iverson early last season. And we know Billups turned the Nuggets into a contender while the Pistons staggered toward the extinction of Iverson's contract.


    It also should be noted the Pistons seemed a bit past their expiration date even before the Billups deal.
    But Iverson — and his reluctance to play offense without dominating the ball or contribute much effort on defense — was the catalyst for calamity. And on a team attempting to develop its young core, it was easy for the Pistons to wave bye-bye."


    Iverson's suitors aren't chasing a prize - FOX Sports on MSN
     
  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think this is a mythology being created by folks that didn't watch AI play for the Pistons last year. He deferred almost too much on offense initially. It's easy for folks with a very little knowledge to make Iverson a convenient escapegoat.
     
  3. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Iverdone?

    Not only bye-bye to AI but a few months later to the young core as well.
     
  4. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Iverdone...?

    AI certainly shares some blame for the chemistry issues that hampered the teams perfomance last season. AI certainly did himself real damage by throwing a hissy fit over coming off the bench and further damage by putting himself in a position to be asked to sit-out for the rest of the season. Any way the cake gets cut, he was being paid $256k per game!

    But it's also true and fair to say he was one component in many things gone awry on team Pistons.

    He should have been a lot more savy about how much his actions would cost him in the summer of 2009. Could be - he has so much money stashed, it really wasn't at the forefront of his thinking. Or, could be he saw nothing but further damage should he have played through.

    But as a professional pulling down that kind'a cash.....

    There is no doubt that over the years, no matter how hard he played, the general media portrayed him as a selfish ballhog. In writing about him, they often chose not to recognize the schemes his teams used, the capabilities of the talent level surrounding him, his willingness to play through injuries..etc.

    Instead, they wrote about his tatooed torso, dreadlocks and "40 Bars".

    They chose not to like Allen Iverson, only to offer their grudging respect for the little mans prolific scoring as a sidebar to whatever negative story they were writing. In return he chose not to like them as well. One hand was washing the other.

    So pieces like the one written, that blame him almost totally for the demise of the team are going to be the standard. He had a fiery relationship with the media, then lit the fuse in Detroit. He played with matches near a flammable object - himself.

    It was a forseeable and preventable event.
    It's unfortunate he had no stabilizing influence that could've helped in "life-coaching" him through the 2008 - 2009 season. It's unfortunate a lantern was left within kicking distance of Mrs. O'leary's cow.

    His problem moving forward is he wants and needs 25-30 minutes a game to attempt his own resurrection. He may still find those minutes on a meaningless team headed for the 2010 lottery. But I see no teams outside of possibly Miami where he can land, get real minutes and possibly win a ring.

    Without winning a ring, I believe he'll have a hard time making the HOF on his first ballot. His record, to me, looks a lot like Adrian Dantleys and we all know it took Adrian being a finalist six times before they relented and gave him his due.

    Fair or not, this side of winning a championship, Iverson's short bumpy ride in Motown may have detoured him right past Springfield permanently..
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Good posts bills and g-man.

    I think the Dantley comparison is pretty relevant, because your play cannot compensate for your character, and we saw it with Barry Bonds as well.

    AI could rehabilitate his image if he wanted to. But he doesn't, and I suspect deep down, any roadblocks to getting into the hall will be seen as further persecution and conspiracy.

    I truly believe Rodman, arguably the greatest rebounder pound for pound, and the premiere defensive player of a decade won't ever get near the hall because his character issues and personal choices aren't what basketball wants hold up as representative of the best of the sport.

    Stats alone are not enough. You also need one of winning or character, a best two out of 3. Dumars had all 3.
     
  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Iverdone...?

    That was the thing that surprised me the most about last season. How could he not know how much this was going to cost him? I'll always be an AI fan - he's been an amazing athlete, but that guy didn't show up last year, and by not showing up may have doomed his career.

    Maybe it's simply that the fire has gone out. Maybe he doesn't care about competing any more, doesn't really deep down care about the ring. Maybe he's still plugging away only because he can't imagine a life without being on the road and hanging out with the guys. It happens, to athletes, to rock stars, even to traveling salesmen, when your comfort level with the life is more important than the reasons you got into the life to start with.

    But, it's all conjecture, I don't know the man. I just wish him well.
     
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rodman won 5(?) titles. He should absolutely be in the Hall, he's a phenomenal player. The Hall is tough to make in hoop though.

    It is interesting to me that there isn't more of a redemptive angle to AI's "story" seeing how he bounced back from prison (a travesty at that) early on.

    The Heat would have to be insane to sign AI. Why they'd want to take the ball out of Wade's hands is beyond me.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't think AI was a ballhog in Detroit Ernie. I think he played the game I best remember him for, but didn't have the legs for it.

    The real issues were Curry, minutes, and wins/losses.

    Forcing Stuckey in as a starter completely took the wheels off the bus. I never thought AI and Rip couldn't play together, but I think we all knew (subconsciously at least) that the small ball lineup would not work.

    IMO, Curry and Joe put Rip and AI in a position to fail and they both took full advantage of it.
     
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    When he first arrived he attempted to play without the ball. Once he was sort of cornered I think he regressed.

    I just don't know anymore of what could and could not have worked. There was so much that went on and every solution seemed to present as many problems as it solved.
     
  10. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Lambs - Pistons Bogey..

    Laimbeer is back where he is well-known
    Steve Yingling - Tahoe Tribune

    "STATELINE — Well after the American Century Championship fades away, former Detroit Pistons' star Bill Laimbeer will live on.

    Laimbeer is infamously tied to the 54-hole celebrity golf championship for what transpired in the event's second year.

    On the first hole of a sudden-death playoff with Rick Rhoden in 1991, Laimbeer agonizingly wedged five consecutive shots into the drink guarding the 18th hole. He wanted to concede the hole, but tournament officials made him hole out or risk being disqualified. Ever since, the little pond has been known as Lake Laimbeer.

    For the past eight years, Laimbeer hasn't been ducking the tournament because of that misfortune. After resigning as the WNBA's Detroit Shock's coach last month, Laimbeer needed only a week to decide he wanted to renew his association with the tournament.

    “I retired again, so it's fun to be back here and see all of the guys that I used to play around with, and everybody is glad to see me back,” said Laimbeer on Thursday prior to the American Century Championship Celebrity-Amateur event. “I missed hanging around with the players and competing against them at a great spot like this.”


    Laimbeer is back where he is well-known | TahoeDailyTribune.com
     
  11. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Piston Power...

    Conversation Piece
    SLAM - Eric Woodyard

    "With the negative aspects dominating the news coverage in Flint, MI , positive events are rarely mentioned.

    On July 10, in an effort to help rehabilitate programs for city’s youth as well as community facilities, Mateen Cleaves kicked off a “Piece of Mine” Initiative filled with local celebrities to interact with the children. Cleaves brought in a star-studded roster including: Morris Peterson of the New Orleans Hornets, former Michigan State receiver Plaxico Burress, hip-hop rapper/producer Jon Conner, 2004 middleweight bronze medalist Andre Dirrell and former MSU ballers Kelvin Torbert and Dejuan Wiley. Wiley and Burress were introduced as “honorary Flintstones.”

    Cleaves’ reasoning behind choosing these individuals was: “We all grew up in the same environment, in the ghetto, and we all have seen a lot of bad things in our lives—a lot of drugs, a lot of guns, a lot of gang violence. So we all got the same common goals.”

    The event took place at Berston Fieldhouse, a very important landmark in the community since it opened in 1923. The recreation center produced athletes like Eddie Robinson and Cory Hightower."


    SLAM ONLINE | » Conversation Piece
     
  12. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Happy Trails

    Afflalo Happy To Reunite With Billups
    Travis Heath - Hoopsworld

    "I think it's a great thing," Afflalo explained. "I definitely enjoyed my time in Detroit, but obviously they have a lot guards that can play. Just the opportunity for myself in Denver is good. Even more important, it's a winning team That's all I'm about. I get to go back there and reunite with Chauncey. I think it's a good fit all the way around."

    It didn't take Afflalo long to start reflecting on his relationship with Billups, and he indicated that Billups had already talked to him about the role he might be able to play for the Nuggets."

    HOOPSWORLD
     
  13. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Clipped?

    Sessions, not Iverson good move for the Clips
    Bethlehem Shoals - The Baseline - Sporting News

    "I've for now, as a hodgepodge of old, new and flawed that's mostly out to generate some interest." already blown off a lot of angst about Iverson possibly joining the Clippers. And, all socio-cultural implications aside, it would almost certainly be a bad basketball move. But it seemed as if the Clips were accepting their fate, at least for now, as a hodgepodge of old, new and flawed that's mostly out to generate some interest."

    SportingNews.com - The Baseline
     
  14. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Zeke speak..

    Did Isaiah Thomas do something good in New York?
    Sporting News - A coaches rambling

    "He traded for traded and brought in talent like Stephon Maubury, Steve Francis, Quentin Richardson, Jalen Rose, and Jamal Crawford. Yes, Maubury was a hassle his last years in NY. But, he did lead them to the finals, didn't he? Also, Francis might have been a bust in NY. But, before that Francis was one of the most talented guards in the league, he just didnt fit well.

    Also, I don't get why the coaching aspect wasn't there. When he was with the Pacers, he did very well. He developed talents like Jamaal Tinsley, Al Harrington, Jermain O'neal, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller.

    So what went wrong in New York?

    Personally, I blame most of it on the media. Maybe he just wasn't meant to handle New York. Showing his moves as a GM, he did make good trades, he got the better end talent wise out of the deals, but for some reason they didnt handle well.

    The Francis deal didnt work out because Maubury was the one handling the ball, ok. What about Eddie Curry? Ok, maybe he wasn't such a good coach, and maybe he couldnt coach?

    Whatever the problem was, there is no way in denying he couldnt scout players from the draft. If I were a GM, he would be my first option to be my lead scout, or some kind of big-named position under a GM."



    Sporting News - Your expert source for MLB Baseball, NFL Football, NBA Basketball, NHL Hockey, NCAA Football, NCAA Basketball and Fantasy Sports scores, blogs, and articles
     
  15. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Piling on Iverson

    Few Teams Seem Interested in What Iverson Offers
    JONATHAN ABRAMS - NY Times

    "The summer’s top crop of free agents found new teams quickly, while a couple of notable exceptions — Lamar Odom and David Lee — are still sifting through possible changes of address. As has been the case throughout his N.B.A. tenure, Iverson is in another category.

    For more than a decade, Iverson reinvented the crossover dribble. Now, at 34, his career is at a crossroads. He has received feelers from several teams, although none are serious title contenders. At this point, the clubs that are intrigued seem to value Iverson more for his ability to lure fans into seats than for his remaining prowess as a player.

    Along with Shaquille O’Neal and Grant Hill, Iverson is part of a group of players who defined the N.B.A. in the late 1990s and the early part of this decade. Now those players find themselves at the twilight of their careers."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/sports/basketball/18iverson.html
     
  16. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Swag: An interview with original Flintstone and former Detroit Piston Justus Thigpen - Eric Woodyard - Mlive

    "In the 1972-73 season, Thigpen became the first basketball player from Flint to play in the NBA, paving the way for the younger athletes in the city. He didn't get there by surprise though, Thigpen lit up gyms across the nation with his lights out shooting anda knack for scoring.

    Prior to his brief stint with the Pistons, he starred for several semi-professional teams including the Flint Pros of the Continental Basketball Association where he averaged 41 points a game!

    What do you think separated Cleaves and Peterson from all of the others who thought they were going to the league out of Flint?"

    "Dedication! You see these guys with dedication and hard work. Mateen Cleaves and Morris Peterson, Charlie Bell, all the guys from Flint that I had an opportunity to see and be a part of, you see you cant get there without it. No matter what it is, if you're gonna be a janitor, be the best janitor and they were the ballplayers and it reflects on what they're doing now."

    Swag: An interview with original Flintstone and former Detroit Piston Justus Thigpen - It's Just Sports
     
  17. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    From Waltons MOUTH to Sheed's ear....

    No Christmas cards will be exchanged between Bill and Sheed
    Toasterhands - Life on Dumars

    "Make no mistake about it, Bill Walton can say some pretty WTF kind of stuff.

    Sometimes what comes out of Bill’s mouth can immediately be cast as hyperbole. But sometimes it’s not really clear whether Bill is high as a kite or just showing off his amazing vocabulary, imagination, historical knowledge or just making sure the viewers are actually paying attention."

    "Just today I fell upon an article Jay King wrote on Celtics Town rehashing a 2003 ESPN column Bill Walton penned about what a bad dude Rasheed Wallace was.

    “Wallace is a chronic underachiever, a malcontent, a disruptive force, a negative personality — and that does not even begin to address his selfishness, emotional immaturity, bitterness and endless anger. I have also personally found him to be a boor and a bully. Those of us with the misfortune of ever having anything to do with this lost soul had to unfortunately accept the lunacy and obnoxious behavior of this sad and pathetic individual.”


    No Christmas Cards Will be Exchanged Between Bill and Sheed | Life On Dumars | A Detroit Pistons Blog
     
  18. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Dinko's Revenge?

    Dark horse: Milicic could finally reach potential with D’Antoni, Knicks
    David heck - NESN.com

    “And with the second overall pick in the 2003 NBA draft, the Detroit Pistons select … Darko Milicic.”

    Words that will live in infamy for Pistons fans. Darko was notoriously taken right behind LeBron James and ahead of the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade.

    And in case you haven’t heard, Milicic hasn’t exactly lived up to the hype. In his six years in the league, Darko has put together career averages of 5.5 points and 4.0 rebounds per game with the Pistons, Magic and Grizzlies. His best year was the 2006-07 campaign with Orlando, when he averaged 8.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.8 blocks in 80 games.

    In other words, Darko is the biggest international bust this side of Nikoloz Tskitishvili.

    Or is he?

    A lot of people forget that Darko is still young. The guy is only 24-years-old, six months younger than LeBron. And he just might have found the perfect system with the New York Knicks."

    Dark horse: Milicic could finally reach potential with D’Antoni, Knicks – NBA - NESN.com
    No, this isn’t a joke.
     
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    One way to look at it is...if Darko blossoms into a star with the Knicks then Joe Dumars' reputation for drafting gets a big boost.
     
  20. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Shirts & Skins..

    Understanding the significance of ur semi-ironic athletic jersey
    Charles - Hipster Runoff

    "I saw this bro attending a relevant music festival, wearing an NBA basketball player’s jersey. Most mainstream bros who wear jerseys are attempting to say ‘I am a bro. I like this sport. This player is good.’
    However, when an alternative person wears a sports jersey, I think that they are just using it to ’stand out’ by saying ‘Hey yall… not wearing Am Appy… wearing this jersey I know nothing about.’

    I think that it is irresponsible to wear the jersey of an athlete who you know nothing about. Much like any celebrity, there is a point where an athlete no longer ’stands for himself’ and solely represents an image/brand based on the trajectory of their career. It is easy to wear a Michael Jordan jersey because he represents ‘greatness’, or a Shaq jersey, because he represents ‘twitter’, but I am unsure about wearing a Grant Hill jersey, like the bro in the above picture.

    In order to understand the bro in the picture, you must understand the career path of Grant Hill, #33 on from the Detroit Pistons.

    Grant Hill was an ‘All American’ athlete who played at Duke. I think that black people who go to Duke are not regarded as ‘black people’, but more of ‘black people that white people can identify with.’"

    Understanding the significance of ur semi-ironic athletic jersey
     

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