Expectations and acquisitions

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by J-Train, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, since this is the most tragic Pistons team in memory, I thought it might be nice to talk about what would constitute a successful season, and what individual player goals might look like.

    Since that would be a fairly brief discussion, I was wondering what young players forum members might be interested in acquiring. I'm not talking about guys like Blake Griffin. I'm talking about young players with promise, and potential free agents a year or two down the road.

    I'll start with individual player goals, starting with what I believe to be the most important, and moving down from there.

    1. Brandon Knight becomes a legit point guard. I love his athleticism. He's got a nice stroke. He looks like he can get to the basket. Can he be a point guard, or just another in a series of combo guards? His instincts for the game are promising. His defensive hustle is impressive. He's had more assists than turnovers in his last few games, and he seems to be getting more and more comfortable.

    I would like to see him average 13-14 ppg and 6-7 apg over the last month of the season, and show the poise necessary to be a quality starting point guard.

    2. We win the Drummond lottery.

    3. Austin Daye consistently puts together two elements of his game. Whether it's consistent perimeter shooting, defensive competence, or the ability to post up swingmen, he needs to find two elements in his game to bring every night. If he can't do that, then we wasted a pick. I still have faith in him, but his time to show improvement is running out. If he can manage to do that, then we've found ourselves a piece of the puzzle.

    I would like to see Daye earn 20 minutes a night over the last month of the season.

    4. Super Collider shows that he can be a high quality sixth man at both guard spots. He's a solid defender. He can handle the point in stretches, but I don't like him there for more than 12-15 minutes a game. He can score with the ball in his hands, but he hasn't shown the stroke to be able to log heavy minutes at the 2. If he can give us 12-15 productive minutes at each guard spot, then he can almost live up to his contract, and help us win games.

    I would like to see Stuckey give us 12-13 ppg and 3-4 apg off of the bench.

    5. Greg Monroe continues to develop. The reason that this is so low is that his ceiling is already so high. At worst he's an 18-9 guy. It would be nice if he could become a poor man's Kevin Love with better defense.

    I would like to see Greg average 20-10 over the last month of the season.

    What say you?
  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was just commenting in another thread about how Joe, in his first year was incredibly active. He traded away Christian Laettner, Terry Mills, Jerome Williams, Eric Montross, and Grant Hill.

    He brought in Ben and Corliss with those trades and we could see the beginnings of a competetitive team.

    Seems like lacks both the trade assets and the competetive fire in his belly at this point.
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  3. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I think that it's more the lack of assets than his lack of competitiveness. Grant Hill was a top five player when he was traded. Laettner, Mills, JYD, and Montross all had pretty decent reputations as role players who could help a contender. There's none of that on this roster, except for maybe Ben Gordon, and his contract is ridiculous.

    Also, Joe was one of the first GMs to realize that flexibility was more important than stockpiling talent that you really won't use. He's not going to get away with dumping players in today's NBA.
  4. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    There are "assets" but you have to wait for two or three years. Remember, after couple of seasons, this new CBA will be implemented in full effect - and there will be more than plenty of teams in desperation "gimme expiring contracts for ...everything"

    Dumars hoped for the best by signing certain players, it did not work out, cleaning takes some seasons.
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  5. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, I agree with the state of the Pistons team we have this season. Though I don't believe completely that this team is that bad. I'm not expecting them to win the championship, but I have to see them want it a little bit more. At this point, even just being competitive is a problem.

    1. I think Brandon Knight will be alright. At this point, I think he is already a better point guard than Stuckey. Along with Monroe and Jerebko, can constitute the good part of our team.

    2. An argument can be made that this could also be the Anthony Davis sweepstakes. I'd be happy with either of them as a consolation prize.

    3. Austin Daye has gone to the dogs. I think he'd best be traded while he has still value. He is someone who will most likely blossom on another team. Sometimes, it just has to be that way. He has been slow to defend, tentative, and dragging his feet on the court. He is very much welcome to prove me wrong.

    4. That we can reliably run the offense through Monroe, even late in games.

    5. The workings of a trade that will take CV and/or BG out of our hair. I'd even take the rights to Greg Ostertag at this point.

    6. Joe is most probably a bit more tentative at this point. Yes, he lacks assets. Yes, more GM's know his style now and can see through his blueprints a bit, and you don't want to be the guy that helps another team beat you. But when he got that team with Laettner, Hill and company, there really wasn't that much scrutiny as to what he would do. I wonder what PF members would have said that we signed and traded Hill for Wallace and Atkins at that time. So here's hoping he learns some new tricks in the managing world, because frankly, it's hard cheering for a team that doesn't go to work every night.

    7. I expect Lawrence Frank to get his teaching in and get familiar and have a staple of plays to go to by the end of the season. It was a nice job he did in New Jersey with a pretty young team albeit with a Jason Kidd at point, but the credit really doesn't go solely to Kidd, Frank had something to do with that transformation as well. So here's hoping he can make something out of nothing here.
  6. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    Monroe, JJ, and Knight are the only assets that we have.
    These three also constitute our future.
    Plus...they all should improve their games.
    All the others are tapped out, talent wise........
    They either make too much money for their skill set, or they're just no good.
    We have no tradeable assets beyond our nucleas.
    We are tied to burdeonsome contracts.
    We can only hope for good draft choices during the next several years.

    Coach must improve the talents of our assets, and maintain a sense of pride amongst players.
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  7. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dumars still running with Stuckey and Prince:
    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120119/SPORTS0102/201190448

    Can someone tell me why Joe D is SO married to these guys? How poorly do they have to perform? How little do they have to add to the young core we have to rebuild with? Joe re-ups with both of these guys and to what end? I'm so incredibly tired of Joe Dumars and his repeating failure of 'Rebuild on the Fly.'

    This has to end.
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  8. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    How you livin', Low? Always good to see your script.

    I touched on that question on the "Ping-Pong" thread. The thing that we need to keep in mind is that the franchise is buying time. CV, Gordon, Tay, Stucky... all of these contracts become assets in two years. Meanwhile, we develop the kids and score some picks.

    I was furious with the CV and Gordon signings. I hated the Rip extension. The AI acquisition made me physically ill, only because I knew that he wouldn't be cool with coming off of the bench for 28 minutes a night.. These last off two seasons are the first in years that made any sense to me. Who knows if it will work? But at least I can see the logic behind it.
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  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It almost sounds like the plan (if there is a plan) is to make us fans suffer for another 2 years until we can move all these knuckleheads.
  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Turrible...but that seems to be the plan.
  11. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    It might be painful, but I can't see any other way out of the situation. Not if the goal is to win a championship. Who knows? I could be seeing a plan where there isn't one. In which case, we are all well and truly screwed.

    Back to the the topic at hand, what individual scenarios would have to play out for this season to be a success?
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    1. Don't like Brandon Knight AT ALL! (But most of you all know that's no secret) I've seen this player a million times over, jarret Jack, Darren Collison, Aaron Brooks etc etc etc, Most folks on here who think we have something special in this kid NEVER saw him play at UK, and I've yet to see him do anything really impressive, so I don't consider him an asset, I'd move him, he's not the next great young PG.

    2. Greg Monroe, like him, alot, but he's not a go to big man. Very few of those guys in today's NBA, truthfully I can' think of any. Long gone are the Patrick Ewings and Hakeem Olajuwons.

    3. JJ, good player, to bring off the bench to play starter minutes, the new Dyess.

    Here's the funny thing, Joe isn't all that crazy for assembling this team, there's a method to this madness and it can work, it worked and is working in Philly. Last year Philly got off to a horrible start, but finished strong and made the playoffs. If you look at that Philly team there aren't any stars, there's a bunch of guys who on any given night 2 or 3 of them have really good games, Turner, Holiday, Williams, Young, Hawes, Brand and Iggy; but NONE of them can deliver their A+ game night in and night out, but they do play HARD every night, they do play FAST every night and now they win A LOT! So are our guards any worse than theirs? Kind of. Lou Vs Stuckey, I give the edge to LouW. Holiday Vs. Knight, I give Holiday the edge, Iggy Vs Tay, IGGY BY A MILE! Hawes Vs Monroe, I give Monroe the edge but Hawes gives his team what they need from every night. Young Vs JJ, Young gets the edge, Brand Vs. CVG, it should be CVG, but Brand by a mile. BG Vs Meeks, it should be BG by a mile......should be. Now what they're getting off the bench from Evan Turner is what we expected to get from Austin Daye, but we're not. Our collection of talent is comparable to Philly's, but that puzzle came together, Joe's puzzle is in shambles.

    So here's my dream scenario, our puzzle comes together like Philly's did at the end of the year, we miss the playoffs, but we end on a high note, have the Ping Pong Ball Gods smile on us and that the Davis kid isn't a dud. And that over the summer we can somehow-someway make Wilson Chandler a Piston.
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    When you say "end on a high note", do you mean we lose our last 15 games? We don't need to make a run and get another #8 pick. We need a top 3 pick.
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    Hmm - don't let assets walk. You instead sign them to contracts you wish you could get out of in another year.

    Only 2 that he actually let walk were his 2 best players - B.Wallace and Billups. CB was traded a year after he was not let to walk which is basically the same.

    Let the business decide for them what is going to happen. If Gores is happy have the worst attendance in the league then there is not much to say about it.

    Im just sick of watching those ping pong balls year after year. 1st year was a novelty and interesting in a way. 2nd pong year kinda sucked. Third year ( this year ) really blows. I want to watch a team that I can hope wins games.
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is a most realistic summation. Monroe will get better, as will Knight. Both, as starters, will have to mix/match (respectfully, 5-4/1-2) and ease in and out of certain positions. During this time there will be another mix and match for the other positions. There should be, in my opinion, a heavy emphasis on making sure that additions to the ball club have utmost value. Those days of making organizational moves that are flipped quite easily toward the next trade dead-line or to the in-house (closet) GM nod in trading mistakes, is long past. The key now for any organization, is in making sure that any acquisition is developed, expanded and transfered toward other like-minded organizations as agile situations occur. Good organizations recognize each others patterns. It is a recognizable loop. SA is in this loop. The Pistons are not. It goes beyond taking the advantage of trading a throw-away for another.
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  16. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In regards to this, I perused the other rosters and came up with some names:
    Ronnie Brewer (CHI)
    Why (for us): Has a limited offensive game but is a bit of defensive stopper and disruptor and could provide toughness and height in the backcourt that is so sorely lacking. More suited as a bench role player but on this current roster could give us 25 mins per night.
    Why (for him): Increased role and PT
    Contract: 1 more year left @ 4.3 mil

    OJ Mayo (MEM)
    Why (for us): Undervalued on the market. Was repeatedly attempted to be dealt for Josh McBob. Cheaper version of Ben Gordon (assuming we find a way to get rid of him). Should be hungry to prove his worth and start again. Still young and has plenty of scoring ability.
    Why (for him): Unloved by the Grizz - demoted to a 6th man role. Potential starter for us.
    Contract: Qualifying offer for next year @ 7.3 mil

    Paul Millsap (UTA)
    Why (for us): Has already shown what he can do at NBA level and fits a gaping hole in our frontcourt. Plays with passion and energy. A possible 20-10 guy for us.
    Why (for him): Jazz have shown no commitment to him and will be looking for a bigger payday in his next contract.
    Contract: Last year of contract next year @ 7.2 mil

    Derrick Favors (UTA)
    Why (for us): If we can't get Millsap, Favors would be a decent secondary option. Has shown promise this season and could develop into a very serviceable big man. I haven't seen much of him but appears to be able to play on both ends.
    Why (for him): Jazz already have Jefferson and Millsap and drafted Kanter who will begin to need minutes. Could simply find himself out of the rotation. Would become a starter here.
    Contract: Two years left @ 4 mil before Team option in 3rd year @ 6 mil.

    Gerald Wallace (POR)
    Why (for us): Proven all-star calibre player. Plays with passion and energy. Will fill a need at SF and bring veteran leadership. Will inspire others with his 'walk the walk' play. Team player.
    Why (for him): Has already said he will become an free agent at the end of this season. Will be looking for another big contract and a team that will love him.
    Contract: Last year @ 10.6 mil
  17. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tay is averaging about 23 shots per game during his latest two "great" games. James average is 18.9.
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    webz, I can tell you 1st hand. POR will NEVER move Gerald Wallace...the fans are married to him here. I mean just short of worship. I'd be surprised if he didn't finish he career here (in Portland).
  19. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    This is very important....as we haven't seen this. I'm tired of looking at throw-away types.
    If JD doesn't see this now........it will cost him everything.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What is so bad about just having cap space and not using it? Why do we have to sign Prince so that we can later trade him when his contract is expiring?

    Could the organization just save some money for a year or two and then use it to dive into luxury tax territory on a massive spending binge later?
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