Expectations and acquisitions

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by J-Train, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I guess I was replying to you, but not just to you. Your position seems to be held by many Pistons fans, and to a certain degree, I can understand it. I'm just not sure that I agree. I think that we overpaid for Stuckey, but I really like him as a player. I believe that he'd be a great sixth man. With Daye sucking up the joint, Prince is our best SF option. My main concern is that this team won't quite suck enough, and we'll be drafting 7th or 8th again. This possibility doesn't bother me as much as it might in some years, since I don't see a John Wall, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant type player at the top of this year's draft.

    If Joe hadn't signed those two guys, then we'd be heading towards the worst record in NBA history, and next year wouldn't be much better. I would ask anyone to look at next summer's free agent list, and tell me how we would definitely do better. Does anyone want to watch a full 82 game season where our primary goal is ping pong balls? Stuckey has been our second best player this year, and Tay has been either our 3rd or 4th. I believe that this team needs more good players, not less.

    Getting rid of Chuck G is my #1 cap issue. I would wait until the off season to access the performance of Gordon, Stuckey, and Prince. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Gordon could average 18-20 ppg over the last month of the season, and Stuckey cements himself as part of a very nice guard trio. If that's the case, then we draft a nice big, and keep looking for someone to push Prince for the starting job. I believe that next year is the year that we look to make a trade or two, and I for one, would like an asset or two in order to do it. You can debate whether or not Prince, Gordon, or Stuckey can be considered assets. However, you cannot debate the fact that without them, we have none.
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    If Lin is really the TRUTH, it's not crazy to think that the Knicks may end up with buyers remorse on Melo. Could they entertain moving Melo? Maybe Melo for ...................
  3. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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  4. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I don't understand why the Pistons were not in the market buying 1st round draft picks the last two or 3 years. There were at least 5 teams or more that were giving them away for cash or 2nd round picks because they were in luxury tax territory. The key to getting better is having young cheap talent that if need be can be traded for quality veterans that can fill holes to take your team from good to great.
  5. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Team for sale... nothing that changed the team was happening... the last two years were pure torture for us fans... but think if your the GM and your hands are tied, he had to have been totally dieing.
  6. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I don't know if he was dieing inside. I think Joe actually was thinking he had put together a good team together. He brought theband back. Hewould have brought T-mac back too if he didn't want to go someplace else. It was all bad coaching....... Yeah that's what it was....... At least that is what he has been telling himself based on his moves in free agency. The coaches might not have been good, but that was not the only reason we lost games the last 3 or 4 years. We don't have a scorer that can put up 20 a game consistently. We don't have a defenisve presence in the paint. Overall this team is slow and not very atheletic. There are too many undersized guy's on this team.
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    This exact question could have been asked the year Joe traded Billups for AI's valuable, expiring contract. There was no one out there that could do better than what they already had that year in free agency or the draft.

    You seem to always come back to a point that some of these contracts will be valuable when they're expiring and that we should be patient. That is only the case if you're willing to move them.

    Joe turned down a player (Caron Butler, I think) + a first last year from Dallas when Tay's contract was a valuable, expiring contract only so he could him and roll this assumed "value" forward another 3-4 years.

    The Pistons would have had:
    1. The same (approx) contract coming off the books at the same time or
    2. The same level player (at worse) available to resign if necessary and
    3. An extra 1st round pick to take a chance on (they have nothing else to play for)
  8. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I would have made that deal.
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Joe didn't..........that's our concern.........
  10. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

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    Mediocre veterans are a completely overrated asset. That and playoff experience on talent-deprived teams.
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  11. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Agreed here.........:)
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I remember this proposal: Dallas actually demanded 1st round pick not vice versa.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is as good a place to post this as any-

    I was curious as to how many active NBA players were drafted in the top 5 in their respective year and ended up winning an NBA Championship for the team that drafted them. Basically, I'm wondering how much it matters that we get a top 5 pick in the grand scheme of things.

    First, I'll start off by looking at each year:

    Year: career ships (details)
    2011: 0
    2010: 0
    2009: 0
    2008: 0
    2007: 0
    2006: 1 (Adam Morrison- drafted by Charlotte, won with the Lakers w/13 total minutes played in the playoffs for him).
    2005: 0
    2004: 0
    2003: 2 (Darko got one by riding the pine, Wade got his the old fashioned way... by having Shaq on the team)
    2002: 0
    2001: 3 (Chandler was drafted by the Bulls- won it with the Mavs, Gasol was drafted by the Griz and won 2 with the Lakers)
    2000: 0
    1999: 2 (Odom- drafted by the Clippers, won 2 with Kobe)
    1998: 0
    1997: 5 (Duncan 4 with the team that drafted him, Chauncey with 1 on his 5th team)
    1996: 1 (Ray Allen- drafted by the Timberwolves- won with the big 3 in Boston)
    1995: 2 (KG- drafted by the Timberwolves- won with the big 3 in Boston, Sheed drafted by Portland and won with DETROIT!)
    1994: 1 (Jason Kidd- drafted by Dallas, traded 4 times, and won with Dallas at the end... weird)
    1993 and before: N/A- no top 5 picks still active in the league

    So, of the 90+ players who are currently active and were top 5 NBA draft picks, only 12 have won a Championship. Of those 12, 2 were flukes and did not contribute (Darko and Adam Morrison). So, that's really 10 that have won at least one. Of those 10, only 2 won with the team that drafted them before being traded (Wade and Duncan). Of those 2, San Antonio is an exception because they got the best tank in history with David Robinson injured and the Heat had Shaq.

    There is a lag effect on this timeline since guys recently drafted may very well win one or several Championships for their teams. This is why the further back you look, the more career success guys have had. But it still shows that a player drafted in the top 5 is fairly unlikely to get a title with the team that picked them. 4% according to this survey, but it's probably more like up to 15% when you factor in that recent picks haven't had a chance yet.

    The other question is whether teams that drafted in the top 5 won Championships after trading their top 5 draft picks (as opposed to losing them in FA). Not worth figuring out, but it is probably pretty rare.

    I think that the moral of the story is that most teams that draft in the top 5 are pretty bad and they don't build fast enough to win the title with the guys that they drafted at the bottom of their despair. So maybe getting a top 5 pick is a recipe to escape the dungeon, but the real work is done later after they go to another team.
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  14. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    You forgot about Bron bro...........oh, never mind........
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sheed was drafted by the then Bullets, not the Blazers.
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Not according to the internets.

    http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=7236
  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    The NBA is FULL of 6th men for a lot less than $8.5 mil per year.
    Joe needs to invest in his starting lineup not in aquiring additional 6th men.

    This concerns me as well. -However, by all accounts, this is a deep draft. If the team of "experts" that Gores is paying to evaluate talent do their jobs effectively, the Pistons could end up with a valuable player who can help turn this thing around.
    I'll use this analogy: The Pistons are a house with a bad foundation and a leaky roof that is badly in need of repair. Instead of fixing these problems, Joe chose to install new carpet in the den.

    Well, Joe DID re-sign those guys and look how that's working out this year. I agree that the team needs "more good players". ...The problem is that it's difficult to acquire more good players when you keep adding "more bad contracts". Tay's contract could be moved. It's possible that Tay could be the final piece to the playoff puzzle for a team looking to make a push. That situation might bring us someone young and decent in return. Stucky's contract is untradable. Nobody else in the league sees Rodney as an $8 million dollar combo guard.

    This shouldn't even be up for debate.
    WITH these three guys (and of course Charlie as you pointed out) we have assets. ...NEGATIVE ASSETS.
    CPAs like to call these LIABILITIES. - These are bad.
    The Detroit Pistons would be in a MUCH more liquid position to buy, sell and trade players if they weren't tied to the bad contracts of their four highest paid players.
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    The question remains..........

    1. Would you rather have Stuckey, Gordon, Prince, and CV........as we do now?

    or

    2. Some minimum players and the money...ready to be spent the correct way?

    only these two choices.........no others.........



    I opted for choice #2 before this started, and still hoped for no Stuckey or Prince.
    Now we have them all..........so which is it.......????????
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I'd likely break my foot kicking down door number two!
  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That percentage is low, but keep in mind that only about 3% of teams (1 out of 30) win a championship at all any given year. That means there is a pretty small sample size even over the last few decades. However, it would be interesting to look at the champions over the last 20/30 years and see how they built their team to win. My initial hypothesis is that the largest percentage will be teams that are in a large NBA market and have an owner that spends lots and lots of money.

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