Flip Fan Support Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, May 11, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,576
    Likes Received:
    2,435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Flip has won me over. He's dropped the media friendly doublespeak in his interviews. He's frank about the deficiencies of the team, quick to criticize poor play, and has squeezed more offense out of Lindsey Hunter and Mo Evans than most people thought possible.

    I'm not saying the players don't deserve a large share of the credit, but even the biggest Flip doubter, after casting aside their Darko/Delfino PT beefs, has to admit that he has conquered many of the concerns we all had prior to the start of the season.

    This team is prepared. Unbelievably so. In fact, in the areas of scheming and scouting, he's exceeded Larry Brown, whom I now think relied more on traditional principles and in game adjustments, than out and out game planning for war.

    For example, look at the sophisticated positional defense being played against the Cavs. Even Mo Evans when forced to guard LeBron is shading to his right hand side, giving him the baseline drive to the help defender(s). And we're all quick to admit that Mo looks lost and overmatched at times on defense, but the practice and preparation is paying off. LeBron is actually passing out of one on one defense against Mo, not because Evans is a fearsome defender, but that his preferred spots and lanes are not available. The scheme is making LeBron passive.

    Then there is the exploitation of matchups. Sure, we're never happy if Sheed isn't in the post, but by drawing players like Marshall and Gooden to the perimeter, creates great spacing and limits their physicality.

    And Tay. Tay, Tay, Tay. His offense against LeBron, forcing James to think at both ends of the court, has been tremendous. This is by design. LBJ is overrated as a defender, and still has not learned how to play his opponents either through study, strength or position.

    The less LeBron takes over on offense (because he's being zone defended) the more pressure falls on his shoulders. The more he is forced to defend (which he does poorly in my opinion), the more scrutiny and pressure he faces. Until we witness the ascendence of LeBron, exploiting his youth and relative inexperience is a sound strategy.

    This is Flip. Larry would have put Tay on an island, demanded that everyone rotate and collapse leaving the perimeter open for players like Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones to set up camp. By taking LeBron out of his comfort zone and limiting turnovers by bolstering Billups confidence, LeBron's transition game (and that of Larry Hughes) has been negated. Instead of the Pistons succumbing to the trey bomb, we're putting other squads in a position to be exploited by targeting their lack of mobile personnel with length.

    How important has Flip been? He's the only major change from last year. The results speak for themselves. Witness it.

    Detroit sports franchises (in particular the Pistons) and fans have been notoriously hard on the coaches. But after this season, I reckon that Flip would be the apple of at least 20 GMs' eyes.
     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,813
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    So far in the playoffs, he hasn't needed to scheme against quality team play. The Redds and Brons are minor league. Let's see what he pulls out of his hat for ECF.
    I would say Delk is a major addition. And Mo is a solid addition. I don't think we tighten up when either is in the game. OK a little, when Mo is in.
     
  3. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,426
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I'm witholding judgement until we face some real competition, but... So far so good. I like the crazy offense, and the defense has looked almost as crushing as last year.
     
  4. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    229
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Willington, CT
    For me, it's way too early to pass judgment on Flip, good or bad. He has opened up the offense, no question about it. If he helps his players win a championship, then he'll be well liked. If not, then not. It's all about the bottom line. I can't agree on the Tay thing being a stroke of genius. Tay is pretty much the X-factor in most of Detroit's series. And I think Brown knew that, too. No question that Flipper thinks offense a lot more than Brown, but Flip has definitely benefited from some things that Brown did with this team. Flip doesn't get all the credit and doesn't deserve it. This was a great team before he walked in here. Is it improved? We'll see.
     
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    Micro, I almost :faint2: when I read your post. Good job being objective with Flip even though you were a huge supporter of Brown.:thumb:

    I agree with you 100 percent on this one. I don't know what else people could have realistically expected of Saunders. You're right. The ball don't lie. Flip's done a great job making an excellent team the best and most feared/respected in the NBA.:nod:
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,426
    Likes Received:
    427
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    I agree.

    Plus Flip wants to be here. I got feeling that Carlisle was killing time until Bird got a gig and LB speaks for itself. Nice having a coach that is just happy coaching the Pistons.

    Well this is my last post using DSL. Flipping over to cable modem tomorrow.
     
  7. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    Flip is in a sticky situation here, with the media, and the fans. Especially we here at this forum.

    We are perhaps Flip`s harshest critics, using his own phrase; one play or one series can change are opinion on his coaching ability and/or philosophy. And it should.

    He knew the pressure of this job before he accepted it. Anything less than a championship is a failure.

    To this point he has done everything that was expected of him, maybe more. HCA throughout the playoffs, best record in NBA, an improved offense and keeping one of the leagues best defenses intact.

    Flip is a veteran coach, he wants that ship probably as bad as CB, Ben and Sheed does. The criticism he recieved in Minnesota, though justified, has got to be wearing on him like a cheap suit.

    I still believe Flip should have disciplined Ben for his outburst, and sometimes his sub patterns are questionable, but winning makes one forget, quickly.

    The next two series (ECF & Finals) will have a huge impact on Flip`s legacy. It will be the define his coaching career.

    Wouldn`t it be something if Flip could win two, maybe 3 ships in a row with Detroit? Where would he rank as an NBA coach if that would happen? Or will people say he just took advantage of his opportunities?
     
  8. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,426
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I hope the quality of your posts does not suffer.
     
  9. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    absolutely dead on Micro! and I'm glad you said so.

    any quibbles I have with particular decisions Flip makes or has made pale when compared to the sheer exhiliration and joy (with occasional heart-stopping moments) of watching this team unleashed this season (in fact, now that I think of it, watching the pistons this season has felt a lot like watching the "sunday drive" video that Zoso posted on a thread in the "Green Room" section of Pistons Forum http://www.pistonsforum.com/green-room-forum-lounge/2625-sunday-drive.html.

    While it may too early to pass definitive judgment on Flip (I'd say it's too early for that so long as he is still the coach), it is definitely not too early to applaud the improvements he has coaxed out of an already superb team of veterans.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,576
    Likes Received:
    2,435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Detroit has always been tough on their coaches. The Pistons brass in particular has been really hard.

    Chuck Daly and Jack McCloskey were frequently at odds, and when it came to money Daddy Rich was almost out there door a couple times.

    Then there was the way he was unceremoniously pushed with his replacement Ron Rothstein calling his games less than 10 feet from the bench.

    Don't forget the 90's magical chairs at the coaching position and the sudden dismissal of Carlisle, the strange and bizarre exit of Brown.

    It would be nice to see some stability particularly to manage the transition from this starting group to the next.
     
  11. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    flip doesn't get my vote until i see how he coaches with anyone besides the starting 6 playing. i could coach this squad and get to the ecf. i would have kept the younguns happy though. flip will always have an asterisk next to his name with me no matter what he accomplishes in detroit.

    i do think he's been great though. he's opened up the offense which was our weakness and now it's a strength. he kept us focused throughout the regular season and led us to a team record in wins. he's got ben playing D and not posting up. he's got tay slowly stepping into his all star role. he's unleashed chauncey on the league. we are still playing D too. i only have one complaint about flip (bench development) other than that he's been the perfect coach for this group of players.
     
  12. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I was just discussing the same things with Warthog prior to Game 2 in chat. Flip could not have done any better. So far Flip has succesfully:
    • Established a successful bench rotation for the playoffs
    • Defeated all of the high profile teams during the regular season
    • Elevated the one part of Detroit's game that was considered a weakness, offense
    • Maintained Detroit's postiton as one of the best defensive teams in the league
    • Ultimately kept all of the starters happy and continued to build on the existing team culture
    • Set a new Pistons regular season mark in victories
    • Secured home court advantage throughout the playoffs
    • Kept the starters healthy throughout the regular season
    • Replaced a hall of fame coach and refused to buckle under the pressure
    • Rolled over the first, soon to be, two playoff opponents. A feat we have not accomplished in the entire "Going to Work" era.
    • Brought attention back to the players to the point where their all-star status is no longer questioned, but assumed. No more talk of overrated stars.
    Not bad. Not bad at all.

    Only thing that could spoil this year for Flip is a missed championship attempt. At this point, it is impossible to give him anything less than an A+.
     
  13. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Dang bballj, where the hell have you been?

    You've been silent since Orlando got eliminated from playoff contention bro. lol!
     
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    But you see Motown, Hill DEVELOPED the rookies (i.e. DARKO). In three years they might have a really good team.

    Final grades:

    Flip =C+

    Hill=A+

    I'll bet they are just dancing in the streets in Orlando. Just think...that could have been us watching other teams in the playoffs while dreaming contentedly about watching Darko block a shot or two back in March.

    Personally, I never met a Detroit championship team I didn't like.

    I don't care if we win with Larry, Moe, and Curly. JUST WIN BABY! Other people can go to the Orlando board and cheer on their favorite player. Or stay around here pining for him. Who cares? Not me. I'm enjoying the championship run too much to worry about some "mighta-be"!
     
  15. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    lol. yeah i took a break for a while. it was only slightly orlando related.
     
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    motown pretty much said what i was going to. and micro too with the defensive scheme against cleveland. this team doesn't have to work as hard to produce the same or better results.
     
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,813
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Musical chairs.
    Rick C to LB to Flip is magical.
     
  18. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    Still fence sitting. We are still a ways from the promissed land.

    I support Flipper with the same speech that Mona Lisa Vito (Marisa Tomei) gave to Vincent Gambini (Joe Pesci) in the movie My Cousin Vinnie.


    Flip, you are really good and dedicated. And I know you can do this ................................ just don't F up.
     
  19. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    He still can't motivate the team to show up for 4 straight games in the playoffs. The fact that he doesn't mention defense AT ALL (or if he does he relates it to poor offense) in his post game pisses me off. And his rotations make me puke. PUT THE BENCH IN EARLIER! Then the starters have more time to recover if the bench lays an egg like tonight.
     
  20. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    To be fair, I'm not sure anybody is capable of that. We talked about that in the 16-0? thread before the playoffs started. I said then that there was no way these guys would go 16-0 because it's just not in them to bring the necessary focus and/or fire game after game after game. Veteran squad that they are, I don't think that would change no matter who was on the bench.
     

Share This Page