Flip is GONE!

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by detteam, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    I don't know, it sure looked like player Isiah warning Carmelo not to drive the lane earlier this year.:)
  2. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    U.S. Virgin Islands
    Yep. Couldn't agree more.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    He an actuary, we need a manager. You just never get the feeling that he spends the entire night in the practice facility looking for stuff on tape to exploit, or that he has the conviction to challenge the players to step up.

    This guy would probably be a kick ass first assistant, but that hunger in victory or defeat just doesn't seem to be there. Maybe behind closed doors it is different, but every time I see him post game, he is just resigned to the fact that it played out the way it played out and geez louise, that's too bad.

    When Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Chris Webber, Lindsey Hunter etc have a problem with the coach, it's time to invoke Henry Rollins' theory of "the lowest common denominator".

    As cliche as it may be, it's a lot easier to fire the coach than fire the players.
  4. G-man

    G-man Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    g & g gas station
    Re: Flip Flop

    Roscoe - I concur. The time has come to run him out on a rail. Possibly providing a summer suit of tar and feathers to protect him from the summer heat.

    If you can't run in the tall grass with the big dogs, stay on the damn porch...

    There's a movie with Mel Gibson called Payback that wasn't a commerical hit, (great soundtrack) in it he played a dark character. The character was on a mission. He was known by a single name - Porter.

    I liked it. I like the idea of Coach Porter.
  5. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    Completely agree. I bet if you went to each of the bench players before ten different games that not one of them would have a clue as to what quarters they were going to play and for how many minutes. Even if they did well the game before in 10 minutes of work; they couldn't tell you if they would even get in the next game.

    That is what is PATHETIC!!
  6. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    [quote92761]Bill's been snubbed a number of times in the last few years for an assistant position. I seriously doubt Davidson made him off-limits to the Pistons because he thought Laimbeer was too important to the Shock. Apparently it pissed off Laimbeer enough that he stopped doing color for Piston games.[/quote]

    I thought Bill didn't do TV this year so he wasn't correcting and second guessing the guy he was going to replace to the fans nightly.
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,434
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    This has been my beef as well throughout the season and that reflected very well in the playoffs when bench just plain sucked for the most part.
  8. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    This just proves you can't run your starters for two straight quarters, on a days rest, against play off competition, that is getting a 3-4 minute rest, every 8-10 minutes and EXPECT TO KEEP UP.

    It's all about the substitution patterns. I think if Flip had a clue we "might" have had different results.
  9. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,434
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    This is the problem with Flip. I am not sure he gets it. They've been through this last season, and he hasn't learned. It looks like nobody is willing to give him a benefit of the doubt that he'll learn for the next year. However, the only opinion that matters is that of mr. D and Joe D.
  10. MainManJoeD

    MainManJoeD First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement sums it all up. This is exactly why the team has flamed out 3 years running. Winning championships requires a level of hunger and determination that is a few levels above where we're at. The focus that we had in '04 has only been seen in short spurts since then. Cleveland absolutely had it, Miami last year. But every one knows, and it has often been said, repeating is the hardest part. Once you've tasted success, the will to do it again is dulled. Because in the end, are you really going to smash your face against a wall to do the little, painful things it takes to win it all, when you're already a champion? Only a few have had that drive. And they are our heroes.

    Here's what we should do next year. Design a psychological test to determine who is really pissed off about losing yesterday, and will probably be upset about it for months to come (keep them), and who is not really angry right now (dump them). It is that anger that wins titles. I'm pretty sure that LeBron was as angry as can be imagined after he was put in his place in the 7th game against us last year. Just like we were angry when we lost 0-4 to NJ in '03. That's what it takes.

    We need guys who are that hungry. JoeD's system is a great one, but he needs to realize when guys have lost the hunger. For my money, there are a few who need to go right now. CB is the first.

    I'm not so sure that Flip is that hungry. But maybe losing this way two years running will make him that hungry next year. Maybe he is the perfect coach, because he has been beat down like this. I doubt it though. JoeD need to look in FLip's eyes, and see if the hunger is there.
  11. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    I realize that you need to be hungry to win a title but what about the fun factor.

    Bringing the ball up and running a set offense may be fun for some but...

    Do you think the Phoenix Suns had to get together before each game and try and motivate each other?
  12. MainManJoeD

    MainManJoeD First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Different measures of success. Phoenix is successful because they've made basketball fun for the masses. But they haven't won a thing. If your in it to win it, you've got to be hungry for a title. Keep in mind that in every season there are probably 7-8 teams who are hungry and talented enough to win it. So 5 straight ECF is pretty damned impressive. We probably could make it back there next year too. I'm mostly concerned the hunger seems to be decreasing, not increasing.
  13. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,028
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    Mansfield Center, CT
    I was out of town the last four days and did not get to watch Games 5 and 6 closely. I watched snippets here and there depending on which way I was facing in the various bars I was in.

    I knew the "Fire Flip" thread would be started ASAP after the Game 6 final buzzer as it should be. I never liked this hire, not from Day 1. G-man makes a decent case for Porter, but of course I'd love to have Laimbeer. Good cases can be made for both men. And I agree with Cloud that it does not matter that Laimbs hasn't been an NBA coach. I have no doubt that Laimbs would know what he was doing from the onset.

    I expect Flip to be back, but the personnel will have to change. I'd dump him though. I never would have hired him to begin with. And I could care less about all the regular-season wins last season. In my view, that's where the cocky "we don't need to earn anything" attitude started.
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    1,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Re: Flip Flop

    I loved that movie and Porter's ability to chain smoke no matter how much duress he was under.

    We need a coach who chain smokes.
  15. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland

    Player/Coach/motivator/enforcer
  16. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,368
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Put me on the list for Laimbeer... or anyone who understands the importance of rebounding and post defense. The Pistons had almost zero second chance opportunities, while giving the Cavs anything they wanted in the paint.

    Maybe Ben is old and overpaid, but this team desperately needs someone to do the dirtywork, and a coach who understands the need for that type of player.
  17. detteam

    detteam All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    314
    Location:
    Troy
    LB was the one that instilled confidence within the team. The 'attitude' didn't arrive until Flip did. I still think the team was pissed when LB got canned. I still think the team never respected Flip from Day 1...when they set out to do it on their own despite Flip and developed the tude. LB got the players to believe in themselves, but got let go...leaving the team to self-manage and become egotistical and lazy. Flip stepped into a situation he was ill-equipped to deal with.

    I truly believe...had LB been allowed to stay here, last year and this year would have gone a lot differently and the players' attitudes now would be similar to that of the Spurs under Pop...no big heads on that team.

    IMO letting LB go was Joe's biggest mistake...MUCH bigger than the 03 draft in it's affect on team fortunes.
  18. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Ft. Belvoir, Virginia
    After five days of being away for the forum, I guess it's time for me to post.

    I couldn't watch or listen to games 5 & 6, why?, because I knew the outcome, seen it all before, rewind the tape, same situation two years ago, we play decent the first playoff series, then all of a sudden the losses start to mount up, the players no longer look like the Pistons, CB start his turnovers, Tay looks like he is anemic, Rasheed picks up techs, the bench (what bench).

    I could not stomach the losses, not again this year, a carbon copy of last year.

    1. Flip can't get over the hump, as I said all along, Flip cannot coach in stressful situations, he is not a last minute, flip the switch (no pun intended) type of coach. Flip can't coach on the fly, he is such a poor flex coach.

    2. I believe that we need to inject some youth in this lineup, the Cav's won with a rookie.

    3. Over the past two years, we are still on this "have to stay with our core bullcrap".

    4. Bill Laimbeer, (lets get absolutely real here), would make an awesome coach. YES, Laimbeer has won 2 championships, is there gender parity in the WNBA or is the women's league considered a group of AAU players and I guess the trophy at 5 championship drive is a figment of everyone's imagination, or is it a reason we call it 5 Championship drive, was Laimbeer the coach who was the receipient of those two championships, may the defense rest. Why not get a coach who loves the pistons to a fault.

    5. We will never win another championship in life if we keep picking up the Dupree's & Nazr's of the NBA.

    6. Trying to win a championship on the cheap (see #5 above).

    7. Joe needs to make the unpopular moves, YES that means moving some of those core players right out the back door of the palace.

    8. For once in a long time Joe, please, please, pick up a quality free agent, when was the last time this happened?
  19. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,789
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo

    Team really came together with the addition of Sheed. LB deserves partial credit, but his effect on that championship team was minimal. The players were ready and hungry for the championship. Flip would have won in 2004............
  20. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,434
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    I think LB was a big part of that championship. He made CB a top point guard. However, he outlived his welcome. That's what LB is all about, he doesn't stick around. He loves to change teams and he loves the attention. He wasn't going to stay with Pistons anyhow.

Share This Page