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Flip leaps into the Penthouse

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by LA Sam, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. Griffin

    Griffin First Round Draft Pick

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    Actually, the argument IS whether Flip can acheive Larry's success, and not just 2004's success, but 2005's as well. That is how Saunders will be judged in this town. That was the challenge laid before him when he accepted the job.

    When I say success, I don't mean winning the championship, necessarily. Flip could do some great things, and maybe we still lose in 6 or 7 games to Indiana or Miami simply because they became more talented than us. Maybe it wouldn't be Flip's fault. But if he can get our guys to play motivated, intelligent basketball, then I suppose he will have done his job.

    And come on. Of course LB supporters will boast about him taking the team to the Finals twice in two years. Who's "using this against Flip" though? What does that even mean? The guy led the Pistons to a championship!! And now we're not allowed to bring that up?

    Did Chuck Daly supporters "use it" against whatever piece-of-crap coach succeeded him?

    See my point? Larry Brown supporters will always be able to laud his championship over his detractors, because you see, he LED THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP. and he got close enough the following year to prove it wasn't a fluke.
     
  2. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm not knocking LB or jumping on the Flippers wagon.This team wouldn't be where it is defensively or "playing the right way" without LB he was a great teacher/coach despite some of his downfalls.Noone is perfect well cept Lee anyway...

    There are alot of things that go on well before or even without us knowing about them.I think Larry knew he wanted to leave before it came out and did everything he could to obtain this through the media as well as Joe having Flip waiting in the wings before it came out just as LB was waiting to replace Rick.

    You can't take anything away from LB or Rick they each taught the core of this team valuable lessons and reached thier usefullness as far as Joe seen fit.This team won't lose any of that and now they hopefully will gain the offensive stability/improvement from Flip.Looks promising and if this works out keeping the defensive mindset and gaining offense who knows?

    But Flip needs to prove himself here,the players play the game but he needs to coach his butt off.
     
  3. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    It Is Now Time For The Flipper Show in Motown

    Well yes the Pistons almost had back to back championships.

    The question in my mind is:

    If Brown had Played Darko more during the regular season and preliminary playoff rounds would Darko have developed enough to have helped the Pistons with the title last year.

    1. The front court would have been more rested for the finals
    2. The Pistons would not had to play small ball against the Spurs in game #7, which was like committing suicide, especially in San Antonio.

    Well we will never know if the Pistons would have had back to back titles if Brown had had more faith in Darko and developed his game more during the year unless someone invents a Piston Time Machine.

    Also we will never know whether the Pistons would have won in 2003-04 with COLA as coach.

    But one thing is for sure. It is now time for the Flipper Show in Motown.
     
  4. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Obviously its early, but...

    I'm liking everything I'm hearing from Flip so far.

    I especially like the things he's saying about the way he'll handle DMC.

    He isn't going to force him into being something he's not and then bench him for life, never look at him again and humiliate him on talk shows and in interviews.
    :confused: Hmmm... that sounds familiar?? Where have I seen that kind of treatment before??
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Bloody pot stirring Canadians! Sheesh! ;)
     
  6. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Several important points . . .

    . . . have been made in these posts. Jay, you are right. We have not lost a single player that was there for the "just about repeat". To the contrary, we have gained not only players who might make a difference but will gain experience for the ones who did not get much before.

    Sam, you are right when you say that Sheed and Darko are so quick and agile, and when you add Ben to that group, WOW!! Dice might not get up as high but he gets his own shots so well. I can see many, many points per game coming from that foursome playing only two spots, the 4 and the 5.

    I think Flip is in a 'not much to win but a lot to lose' position, but also, if he gets the offense pepped up and contributing and the team goes into the playoffs rested and playing well, he will get his props.

    You know when Carlisle and LB each came aboard, the team won more games and/or went deeper into the playoffs, than the previous year. Well, I think Flip can, too.

    Neither Rick nor Larry had ever won a NBA 'ship before they came here, and Rick still has not. We did get one for LB. I think we will get one for Flip, as well.
     
  7. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    1st off, it's not more attached to the coach than the players, it's the combination of coach AND players. Screw with one of the two and you're in trouble. There is no way on God's green earth Flip can do a better job than LB and you can take that to the bank.

    2nd...LB was in a position to lose the title in the first place. He coached his way to 2 Finals and 1 Championship. Flip CANNOT do the same especially when implementing a large number of changes in a system that was already successful.

    If Flip came in and said he was going to run largely what LB ran because it was successful, I would be more on board with the cornbread a la WDFN, but he's not and I'm not. Easy.
     
  8. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    First off, if Flip manages to get this team to the Finals I will still think bouncing LB was a bad move, but I will give Flip his due and leave it alone from that point on.

    Second, if he doesn't, I will NOT celebrate his failure. I will, however, be thouroughly ticked in the fact that we had the best coach in the league and forced him out the door. Whether people think LB called ESPN to insert his name in rumors or not, he should have been made to quit rather than be pushed out for some lame fantasy of loyalty. But, I guess Zeke knows all about that as well. Flip was being paid for another season by Minny and should have had to wait. He was losing nothing. There was no rush to get him in the mix. I don't agree with it and I never will.

    Now as far as Flip goes, he doesn't even have to win a title, if he gets this group TO the Finals, I will leave it alone. If he doesn't, I will be extremely unhappy to have been right.
     
  9. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Low, I must disagree

     
  10. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Flip in unique situation

    I doubt there have been many situations where a coach came on to a team who had just been to the finals twice and came back intact and is still young. Flip is given a golden opportunity but also a great challenge. Our competition is better--no doubt. How much will they improve and how much will we improve? It is a long way and we can all judge as situations arise. I want another championship from this group but don't want to say that anything less is failing. I do think that a Piston fan will give Larry his due for the championship. I do think that there were problems last year and that if Larry had come back, the team would have had to change its approach anyway. Maybe it will be easier to make changes with a new coach. I was beaming after I heard Flip's interview. I wasn't that happy since game 7 in Miami. But talk is cheap, performance counts. We'll see.
     
  11. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I want Flip to do allright. But in the papers, ther's alot of talk about offense. I hope this team keeps it's identity. When you're running up and down the court it's easy to get caught up playing that style. Tiny Tyrant was great for pulling reigns when neccessary. We can't run with NJ, that's not where our strength is against that team, or against an Orlando team or Washington. I hope our vets are savvy enough to know what wins, and that Flip continues the reign pulling when needed.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That is TRUTH. Sums up exactly what I worry about, and how I see it having to play out if we are going to be successful.
     
  13. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Here We Go Now

    OK Flip got the job by saying many of the right things. The guys are chirping up, feeling good about how things sound. Fans are slurping the Piston juice. It’s all very exciting and makes me hopeful. But I’m squarely on the fence, waiting patiently, saying show me something. I look forward to watching Flipper in the 40 or 50 games that will require astute coaching decisions. I won’t be so insulting to say talk is cheap, but the thought has crossed my mind.

    On the negative side I’ve never been crazy about zones at this level. The league is loaded with many very talented offensive players who spent their college careers being taught to destroy zones. Zones reek of passivity, tend to cause confusion about who to guard when overloaded on one side, suck against transition offense, and sometimes make boxing out a nightmare.
    Ball movement, player movement, or movement movement, we still have Ben in the offense. Meaning there will still be plenty of situations that feel like 4 on 5.
    Unless extra movement increases Bens hand size he will continue to loose the ball in route to the rim.

    Now on the positive side. I’m ecstatic over Flipper wanting to get out and run more. That is truly the way to a more efficient offense. I really hope Flip is able to teach Mr. Big Shot proper fast break generalship.

    On the real I think our success depends equally on two things. (1) Getting two more guys from the bench (not inc Dyse) to step up during the regular season, with one of them able to continue throughout the playoffs. (2) How much additional offense we get from Sheed and Tay.
     
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    1. every year teams rearrange thier teams and still compete. losing players or losing a coach does not mean you aren't going to win as much. i think a lot of people disagree with you about whether flip will do good. nearly every team in the east made moves to compete with us.

    2. i will say lb coached his way to one nba finals. last years playoff i think it was the players will that got us there. lb quit on us well before it was over. lb made changes and we were successful. how come flips changes are automatically unsuccessful?? flip isn't going to rewrite the book he's just going to run another play besides pass the ball to rip off baseline screens.
     
  15. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i disagree we can run with anybody in the league now. i wonder why people think defense will go out the window once flip comes here. the best way to fast break is to get turnovers. you get turnovers from defense. we are one of the fastest teams in the league we are well conditioned and very deep. we can run and gun but we will not forget how to grind it out. the difference between us and the other running teams is we will play defense after we shoot. jersey, phoenix, orlando, washington will never have a 20 block game.
     
  16. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    i'm not too worried

    I just don't see this team losing it's "identity". Ben Wallace is not going to stop defending, and neither is Tay or Lindsay. The way Sheed looks motivated do you think he won't play defense. As for Rip, and Chauncey I've heard them say many times say that LB showed me that I could do more than shoot (this means pass, rebound, play good defense etc). As for the bench thet're not even close to our starters defensive level, but Flip will probably play a lot of zone which will help our bench defensively. On offense Flip will be more versatile which means we won't have a lot of scoring droughts, which is the reason we lost many of the games we lost. So basically i truly think this team will get better.
     
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Some of y'all cats must not have played ball before. Running and gunning is fun basketball. Once you start, is becomes contagious and if not careful you'll look at the scoreboard and a 4 pt lead becomes an 8pt defecit. I'm not in anyway believing that Flip is going to turn us into Dallas or Phx, but I know hoops, and things happen very subtly sometimes. When you're a defense first team that wins by D'ing up and controlling the boards, it takes a great deal of disclpline to incorporate that style. Look at it like this, guys have been in the league for years, plays 80+ games per year, yet every game a coach has to call a t/o to get his team to settle down.

    And anybody thinking that we can with NJ is outta their MIND!!!! Kidd, Vince and RJ are probably the best 1,2,&3 you can have on the break. I know y'all like our team, but Dang be realistic. While their 1,2,&3 are great, games still can be won in the trenches with muscle and we have plenty of that, and they have practically none, same can be said for Wash and Orl (although DHoward is quickly becoming a force in this league).
     
  18. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Don't you remember Flip saying that he wouldn't change much in his interview on 1130, or did you miss the interview?
     
  19. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'll put it like this, I had a basketball coach in high school that did this and it seems to repeat itself anytime someone decides to change what's working. We played our first 2 games, we won both and I averaged about 19.5 over first 3 games. Now, I wasn't the team star, but just to illustrate how well things were working. So, what did this genious do? "Well, these other things seem to be working pretty well so let's try this now..."

    Now, instead of leaving well enough alone and continuing with the winning gameplan, he decided to play textbook (meaning he carried a little stupid book around with plays in it that someone wrote and was supposed to be universal...heh) basketball and change what was working.

    ...needless to say I ended the season avg. around 11 pts per game and we went 3 - 18.

    I might be biased, but I'm not a fan of changing what works. Ever.
     
  20. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    fast break

    I hope what Flip means is that we will use the break to try and get some easy hoops off of stops. He said that we make stops but often did not capitalize on them. By doing so, we will put a lot of pressure on the other team. I don't see this team as an all-out fast breaking team. That is not one of Chauncey's strengths--at least so far.. Actually, Flip does not need to change much to make an impact. I think that we were sort of stuck offensively last year. A break here, a quick look there, Ben on the offensive boards, using players more to their strengths can make a lot of difference. We competed with a stalled offense many times last year and were still there at the end. What if we can actually break loose offensively from time to time?
     

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