Flip says he'll use his system

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Superstarov, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    FOX SPORTS STORY

    They go on to speculate that Ben was completely against playing zone defense. And that now Flip will run the zone a lot more.
  2. Hobbs

    Hobbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Ben wasn't the only one against a zone defense. Sheed hates them too.

    A lot of what Flip believes goes directly against "manly" Piston basketball. Methinks Mr. Saunders is a ticking timebomb. I don't know who on the team is going to buy what he's selling.
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I have never heard Sheed not liking zone. Do you have a link to a story that references this? Perhaps Ben was the ticking timebomb, not Flip...
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not sure I buy into everything that's said here, but it is hard to argue with...

    "If you want to play hard man-to-man," Saunders said, "you're going to give Dwyane Wade 27 free throws in a game."

    It ain't your dad's NBA anymore, and the notion that a team could switch up defenses and give the opponent a different look seems on the surface a pretty good thing. Time will tell.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If the NBA wants to award gratuitious free throws, they will, IRREGARDLESS of what defense it is against.

    I don't like zone because each man doesn't have a hard and fast responibility. It's 5 floaters covering areas of the floor, and a superior strategy will break down the zone every time.

    But if you have 5 men defending as one with crisp switches and hard traps, playing instinctually tough and sound, that is very hard to scheme around. Then it becomes a matter of talent and matchups. In other words, the players decide the outcome.

    Max made some great points about the "new NBA" in the playoffs. It's a farce. A free throw contest still dominated by paint play and rebounding. Nothing like Euro or International style basketball (which is generally considered more free wheeling).
  6. Hobbs

    Hobbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Sorry, I don't keep archives. Ben was the most strongly against the zone, but Sheed and Tay didn't particularly love it. There were all kinds of articles last year about how we'd play more zone because of Flip.

    And Ben may have been a timebomb, but so is Flip. I assume you don't need quotes on how Sheed felt like the hack a Shaq stuff was a total wanker move or how Flip said we just played one bad game in the playoffs but were fine otherwise or need to look at Flip's playoff record verse the rest of the team's. Regular Season Flip has some things he needs to deal with and I'm not sure he's respected enough to get Sheed, especially, and the others to go along.
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Maybe so. But I'm just not ready to buy into the full blown conspiracy theory so I don't buy the notion that you shouldn't try to make adjustments to how the game is being called. I say pack it in every now and then and let the 17% from three Wade come out to play.

    The Pistons got exposed last year, starting in the Milwaukee series, as a team that didn't rotate well. And their playoff opponents jumped on it like there was no tomorrow. I like the five on five hard nosed try and get by me cause my buddy will be there stuff too - just not sure you can play it for 48 minutes (without a lot of substitutions) or that this team really has the right folks.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not into conspiracy theories either. By "the NBA" I mean, "the referees" and any longtime fan has stories about how inconsistent they can be, player to player, quarter to quarter and specifically rule to rule.

    You cannot beat the referees unless every single shot goes in. And their level of competency/consistency is the nightly lottery.

    My point being that the Pistons did not play smart against Wade or Lebron. At the end of the Cavs series, they did get back to lock down, man defense, running a lot of different looks (players) at the King which gave them a slight edge.

    Man D can and does work. If Delfino gets to play Wade, if Hunter gets to play Wade early. If Kelvin Cato and Dale Davis come out and hammer Shaq in the first half.

    You show any team with star talent, and HOF coaching the same short lineup, and they will exploit it. Merc is fond of saying (and I agreed wholeheartedly by the end of the ECF) that the Pistons are short talent. Whether we had it and didn't use it, or need to add more, Dice and Hunter are not a championship bench.

    Re; rotations, that is a practiced thing. If it's not an emphasis in practice, they can't be expected to execute it well in the playoffs. There is no switch. These guys were all great team and individual defenders as recently as one year ago. It's not like they are the wrong personnel for the job IMHO.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Btw, I'm not slamming Flip. I just hate zone defense. It's anti-Piston and until a team wins a title playing a bunch of zone without dominating individual matchups defensively, I will continue to believe so.

    Gimmicks are only good for one or two times a series. Good coaches sniff them out and compensate. I hate it when teams change systems, particularly if what they have works. Thus far, there is no proof that zone is a viable base NBA defense, or that it is the panacea for the "new NBA".

    If Larry Brown had asked the Pistons to play zone, I would have fired him myself.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I know that Ben was a big fan of the No Fly Zone.
  11. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Keep an eye out this year guys... we're gonna set some sort of all-time record for worst rebounding team in the history of the NBA. Not only do we lose our only strong rebounder in the starting lineup, we're going full-on Zone, which is absolutely horrible for rebounding. Should be fun :ohwell:
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Bulls are going to be rebounding monsters. Also, there will be a lot more rebounds to be had because of their defense.

    I'm actually looking forward to watching them... it will take me back to 2003-04.
  13. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    gimmicks do not work. georgetown press- zone defense- we are better w/o Ben- these are words of a foolish man grasping at straws because he doesn't really know how to win in the NBA. Flip is toast, fellas. :ohwell:
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    how many blocks did he have in the ecf??

    a hybrid zone can work you just have to be committed to it. flip is right saying under the new rules you can't check wade without a parade to the free throw line. i'm not a fan of the zone but our man to man was like swiss cheese against lebron and wade. our no fly zone was non existant. i'm not a big fan of the zone either but i wouldn't just write it off without seeing it in action. the few times i saw it in action last year it worked just as well if not better than the man to man. it probably would have worked better if we didn't have that malcontent giving half effort.
  15. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    jay- calling ben "that malcontent" shows your true colors. you love all the scrubs and hate the best players. you remind me of Lee357 more and more every day.
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    nope. i just don't like ben's game or lack thereof. he's not my favorite piston by any stretch. i blame him for last years lack of success. i think malcontent fits more than calling him a happy camper.

    i also didn't like mo evans.

    i rip lindsey a new one on a regular basis.

    you are showing your true colors calling our bench players scrubs. they are pistons too and could contribute if allowed to.
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    Actually they are not gaining anything significant statistically since they traded Chandler. Chandlers 2nd half stats were on par with Bens.

    Its not going to be that bad for the Pistons. Seems like someone brings up these Flip tid bits and it turns into a free for all with the Pistons as the target.

    If half the stuff that was written in these threads was true the Pistons would be heading to the lottery.
  18. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    And could you tell me the dimensions of the Euro court?
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Less than a metre smaller in both length and width of an NBA court.
  20. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Gee...I don't know about gimmicks, but has anyone around here seen Flip's playbook? Phil Jackson has his zen triangle, which he says takes years to learn properly. I just finished his latest book (The Last Season, ISBN#1594200351) and he still hasn't explained it. Also, he didn't have any bad words about Flip as a coach.

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