Flip says he'll use his system

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Superstarov, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Phil hasn't explained "the Triangle" because his assistant Tex Winters is the man who originated it, and implements it from a coaching perspective.

    I have no doubt that Phil is very knowledgeable on the Triangle, but it is hardly his system, and not his primary focus, hence why he retains the originator as his key assistant.

    I'm also pretty sure Flip didn't invent the Flex offense. He's just got a lot of plays for it.
     
  2. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    I actually think we will have a decent season, but I am not at all sold on Flip's propaganda. I simply don't believe we are better without Ben and that playing zone and pressing is going to get it done in the NBA. That's not a knock on The Piston Org, but I don't like the new-fangled Fliposophy.

    We have plenty of talented players, and I believe we are going to be a good team. BUT, it still bothers me to hear Flip act like Ben was a huge problem for us.
     
  3. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    What system? We played weaker defense last year. We did not attack Wade or Shaq with what we had defensively.

    On offense, the great playbook was a mirage. We had no offensive strategy when the real play started, that is, the playoffs. The little bit of this or that didn't work. The lets find who is hot tonight didn't work. Miami has guys assigned to spots on the floor. Take Haslem. An average player but they only ask him to shoot from two spots.

    People studied us for two years. That is what happens when you play long into the playoffs. They did two things: 1) Do not let Chauncey shoot--make him put it on the ground. 2) Do not let Rip shoot the curl. Make him drive or drive and pass. And with Sheed having no set role and with Prince, who could do damage to any team, mostly an afterthought, the Piston offense went about 11 games under 85 points.
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Sounds like some folks are looking for any reason to slam Flip... if it comes out of his mouth it must translate to more losses... why not give the guy a frikin chance.
    So he wants to mix in some zone... did he say they are exclusively going zone?...
    If you show a team the same look all the time they eventually figure out how to beat it... it's important to keep them guessing... if the zone works great... some teams have a tough time beating zones... you could look at the Pistons during the RC era.
    If the zone isn't working go back to man....
    He wants to trap more... and the problem is?
    Comon man this is getting rediculous.
    Did we give up more points last year during the regular season or the playoffs than the previous year?
    In the playoffs, did we play against some of the highest scoring teams in the association?
     
  5. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    What surprises me is why all of a sudden Flip is talking more defense? Isn`t he an offensive genius? Doesn`t Stern want his NBA to become a shoot first ask questions later league?

    If Flip wants to employ this zone defense, does he have specific players in mind to play this zone? Or can anyone play it?

    Seems to me Flip has Flopped on his coaching philosophy here. Maybe he has realized that an NBA team must play some defense to win in the playoffs. Perhaps he realized it too late, because there is a new day dawning in the NBA Flip.

    I guess he can`t do both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:
     
  6. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I am not going to bad mouth Flip, like it or not, he is coach of this team until JD says different.

    As the quote goes in one of my favorit movies (Shawshank Redemption), "Get on with living, or get on with dying", classic.

    I prefer man to man to zone defense myself, I highly doubt Flip will use zone exclusively, but will base it on certain situations.

    The pistonss were one of the lowest rebounding teams last year, with Ben by the way. I don't think we can be any worse in this category this season.

    I am amped and ready for the season to begin. Write it down, put it in an envelope and send it to someone who gives a darn, but I believe the Pistons will be darn good.

    If Flip can't cut cut it, Terry Porter will.
     
  7. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It is called adapting. It is a good thing.
     
  8. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I agree with this to some extent. I definitely think that Chauncey cannot keep opposing guards out of the lane and that hurt us badly on defense last year. A well-executed zone could help with that. I also think that a zone plays well to the length of sheed and tay and nazr
     
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The one time this team really used the zone was in game 4 against Miami. the Pistons were down by 10 or so. Then they used the zone, and they stormed back to have the lead. If Sheed didn't get that bad call against him on the screen we had a good chance to have a comeback win.

    It worked once, but Flip better not fall in love with zone. Offenses adjust so defenses have to adjust in the middle of the game too. If the team can do a good job of rebounding in the zone I'll give it a shot.

    The zone will likely help stop gaurd penetration, but it also will most likely make this team have an evem harder time rebounding. However gaurd penetration was a big reason why this team couldn't rebound so if the zone can help stop that than i'm all for it.
     
  10. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    When Flip says it, it`s called talking out of both sides of your mouth.

    He hasn`t shown he is capable of adapting yet.
     
  11. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's the point merc, last year was his chance and he blew it. Now I don't believe anything from the guy until he proves he can get it right. We showed the same look all of 2004 and 2005 and we manage to get to the Finals without people figuring it out. Even if they figured it out, they were powerless to stop us. Not so with Flip. Zone D is a gimmick and never works. Hell, the only team that seemed to not be able to figure out how to beat a zone was the Pistons.

    This guy's insistence on offense and resorting to college level defenses is forcing us down the road of mediocrity. It's painful.
     
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    The Triangle Offense, is a 3 on 3 set-up to open up the court for your best 3 players. This should keep 2 defenders out of the play as they cover 2 players outside the the 3 arc on the other side of the court. Should a defender leave an outside shooter, to double team in the paint, then it might cause a cross court pass, which is supposed to be a bad thing.
    Bball defense...pisstt, please!
    ------------------------------------------------
    Try carrying the pill across the line of scrimage with Urlacher waiting on the other side. Or try to skate the puck throught the neutral zone with goons like Oliwa headhunting you.
    NOW THAT'S OFFENSIVE!!!
     
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I lost absolutely all respect for Flip when he left Ben on the bench the entire 4th quarter of the elimination game against the Heat. I think this is the single biggest reason for Ben's departure, even more than the money.

    Defense wins championships, and Ben Wallace is the 4 time DPOY. Flip didn't seem to have any respect for that, and I don't really have any respect for Flip.
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    You make a good point. I was thinking the same thing as he sat there. Dyess had 0 points that game.

    Who knows? Maybe someone will write a book 10 years from now.

    But the competition was tougher last year. Miami improved and would we really have beaten them in 05 if Wade/Shaq were at full strength?
     
  15. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    I agree 100%. I am mystified by how many people on this forum think that it was just all about the money for Ben. Ben left because he knew that he could not play in Flip's system, and he didn't agree with that same system. I wish he hadn't left for my own selfish fan reasons, but I am very happy for him that he won't be in the same no-win situation again this year.

    The announcement that Flip plans to use his system should come as no surprise to anyone. It's the only one he knows and he has repeatedly says that it works and he will stick with it. Given that Flip didn't want and wasn't going to use Ben in that system, Ben definitely made the right choice for Ben, and maybe even indirectly for the Detroit Pistons. Now everyone can be productive and successful with no excuses.
    Go Pistons.:) Go Flip. :ohwell: Go Big Ben.:nod:
     
  16. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Excuse me, but these guys get paid millions of dollars to put a day’s work in. Whether Ben liked it or not is not the issue. There are times you suck it up and make the best of an uncomfortable position. When I heard that Ben refused to enter a game, it was a huge symptom of team chemistry gone bad. He should have been suspended for a few games and it might have struck a blow for professionalism. At that time (and building within the confines of the management team) Ben’s days were number. JD put up a token effort at the end which was symbolic and the latter interview with Mr. Davidson compounded that effort. When it gets that bad there is no going back…and life goes on. You can bet that this coming year, these guys will have to suck it up and I think they will do exactly that.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Coach Carlisle had the Pistons playing great defense, with Ben as the centerpiece. LB recognized that and tweaked it to perfection, leading to a championship.

    Flip came in and saw problems with the offense, and threw the whole defensive system in the garbage. How can you not play Ben Wallace in the 4th quarter of an elimination game? Did the guy never see a Pistons game over the last 4 years?

    Hopefully this whole Georgetown Trap or whatever shows a commitment to D.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    When Ben Wallace becomes a head coach then he can decide which system to use.
     
  19. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I didn't like that move to much either Linwood, I was absolutely livid. But to look on the bright side, was it because of his free throw shooting
     
  20. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    ArmyGirl:

    I am not excusing Ben's free throw performance. It was truly terrible. However... he has been a horrible free throw shooter for the last 6 years, and that is the first time since he has been a Piston that I can remember him sitting an entire 4th quarter. I kept thinking Flip was resting him, and going to spring him in the last 5 or 6 minutes. We've all seen the difference Ben can make in close games. In fact, before Flip arrived, I used to think that if the Pistons were trailing by less than 10 going into the 4th quarter, they had the game in hand. Shaq is a horrible free throw shooter, and tends to fade in the 4th. You didn't see him on the bench.

    Anyway, to look on the bright side, I do think that Nazr will fit in better with Flip's system. he can hit a 12 to 15 foot jumper, and I expect to see lots of TWolves style slick passing and deadly jumpshots. Nazr is also a pretty good Offensive rebounder, which could really help the team.
     

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