Food for thought : Big 3

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    San Antonio has a big 2 and 3 role players in the starting lineup with a sixth man who could start on 90% of the teams in the league rounding out their "big 3".

    Has our 5 + 1 approach been too hard to maintain and perhaps too rigid? It seems that if we are cold with a couple guys, it makes it that much easier for the opposition to shut us down because they know who to concentrate on (Rip/Webber/CB). I also think it has kept us from realizing Seed's offensive potential as a Piston because of this equal share nonsense.

    Sure it's great salary wise until you have to start paying all 5+1 the league average or up to 3 times more than the average. Suddenly, you have zero salary depth because 6 guys out of 15 eat up 80% of the payroll.
  2. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    You probably have posted this elsewhere, but how does SA's total team salary compare with the Pistons'? Does SA pay a luxury tax?
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    San Antonio Spurs - $66,359,832

    Detroit Pistons - $58,349,927 + Webber (peanuts)

    I believe the tax threshold for this season is $65.42 million per NBA Salary Cap FAQ

    The Spurs may have tried to cut some corners to get under the tax level, they didn't have far to go.

    SI.com - NBA - San Antonio Spurs Team Salaries

    Based on that list, they did trade Eric Williams, a 2nd rounder and cash for Melvin Ely (Bobcats). Ely made about $900k less than Williams. That's almost EXACTLY enough to get SA under the tax threshold. Why did they pay cash, and a pick to move a higher value expiring contract? Read on, it gets very interesting...

    This is the laymen's version, so it may miss some fine detail.

    The tax limit is a # higher than the salary cap. You can be over the cap and not pay tax.

    When you are over the tax limit, you pay $1 for every $1 you are over.

    So if you go over the tax limit $1, you have to pay an extra $1. No big deal right?

    Not so fast. Th tax money gets put into a pool and redistributed first, to the teams who did not go over the tax limit, and then a smaller portion is allocated to everyone (if my memory serves me right).

    So if you go over the tax limit even ONE PENNY, you could miss out on millions of dollars in redistributed taxes.

    I'm convinced this is why the Pistons are so frugal as their payroll keeps escalating.
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't think that the 5 + 1 has gotten old, I think it has been run into the ground by their offensively " gifted " coach/visionary. DET only goes 6 deep because those 6 are the only ones who get to shoot. SA's coach believes in his system and uses the 6 month season to develop his role players. Flip starts twitching and puts 5 of the 6 in after a few missed shots in November. Come the playoffs, Max and Los scoring basically comes down luck. DET is playing 4 on 5 again, this time without Big Ben. Countless times this playoff SA has been down big or seen their lead dwindle with 2 or all of their 3 on the bench. Pop keeps on keeping on and his bench can make plays because they have been giving time and his starters are fresh. SA's bench is interchangeable because Pop believes.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nice first post Ernie. Thanks!
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Who cares about the money? Are you trying to save some more for Billy D? Our team salary should be top five yearly because they earn/play top five yearly.
    We are better than the NY types.
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    I do think the lux tax has been abused and should be re-done. There is a big difference in the revenue earning potential of teams based on the city.

    A team like the knicks gets so much more money from their local tv games that they actually quit handly beat some of the smaller markets who advance through the post-season. The tax was meant to help out the smaller markets but it does get abused by other teams who can afford to pay it and collect when they do not need it.

    Instead of beating around the bush just identify the teams who need help and only let them be eligible to collect from the lux tax.

    On our 5 + 1 approach. I think its out-dated. Dumars approach of getting a bunch of good guys was fine when they all made 6mil/yr. It fit the 01-03 teams just fine, add in some post-season success and a few all-star selections, NBA 2nd/3rd team selections, DPY awards and those salaries get escalated. Plus it leaves us vulnerable to 6 guys having to stay healthy versus 2 or 3.

    If Ben was re-signed for 12mil/yr and Billups was given 15mil or so then out starters would have been making around 60mil/yr combined. Add in some bench players and you are looking at a payroll close to 80mil.

    Since there is a max limit on contracts it makes sense to me to get the best players possible since it stops the supply/demand curve at a certain point. If player X is really worth 25 mil/ry but can only make 15mil and player Y is actually worth say 14mil. Does it not make more sense to get player X?

    Try and find them though. Not too easy. Under Dumars system he is not even interested. Maybe thats why he threw away the #2 pick.
  8. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    The Spurs approach is made possible by Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. Those two guy's create easy basket opportunites. Duncan often gets doubled in the post and can kick it out to open players. Tony Parker slashing ablity creates easy baskets as the defense sags in to try to cut off his penetration to the basket. We don't have those type of players here to try the Spurs approach. I wish we did.
  9. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    I think the 5+1 scheme was initiated in part due to the Pistons lacking that single focus star i.e. necessity is the mother of invention type deal. If the Pistons had a Tim Duncan to build around then Joe D may have been singing a different tune.
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    It would still be working if those 6 guys were not used every minute because all those guys will get tired at the same time. The last 2 years it has happened in the ECF and you saw the results...it wasn't pretty.
  11. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    I thought so too. Part of it is coaching and part of it due to lack of a solid veteran bench which can be relied on consistently. But the Pistons model is the exception rather than the rule. Most consistent championship teams are anchored around one or two players who can be relied upon. On the Pistons no one seems to step up when one or two players are MIA.
  12. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    The problem with Pistons is the minutes their starters are playing and undeveloped bench. Noone on Pistons can step up because there's no gas left in the tank. As I said before, on Spurs Duncan averaged about 34 minutes a game and Parker about 32. Those are the ONLY 2 players that averaged over 30 minutes. They are still fairly fresh and can step up and play over 40 minutes if it becomes necessary. They also don't mind other people shooting the ball (including offensively-challenged Bowen). It is true that on our team there is not a player that requires a double-team. Sheed could've been that player, but he won't go into the post enough.

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