Four New Starters/Let The Projections Begin

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, May 1, 2009.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    Ben Gordan - 20.7 PPG 0.455 FG, 0.410 3P in 82 games
    22.8 PPG in the playoffs this year.

    He is listed as 6'3" ( yea right ) and just turned 26 a couple of weeks ago.

    I would S&T for Prince or Rip.
  2. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Ray Allen went for a #5 pick. Maybe we can find a team that is cash strapped and they will give it too us for some cash and the 15 pick.
  3. Smoooth

    Smoooth First Round Draft Pick

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    I have a feeling we're going to see Rip and Tay back next year.
  4. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I really hope not. Even I will find it tough to watch the games if both of them are back, especially Prince.
  5. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Naw...Tay is gone. West coast. Portland would be nuts to pass on him. You might have a pick between Ogden and/or Outlaw. I would take the former. And no, they won't part with Bayless. Blake (at 29) still looks quick and would be a serviceable PG.

    Lots of opportunities with this club.
  6. roman

    roman Second Round Draft Pick

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    ANDRE Miller didnt attend a team meeting after his team lost to orlando. 10 million coming off the books for philadelphia. Would be good option for detroit, besides Stuckey.

    Would trade RIP + Prince for a big man. Both likely out after their performances in playoffs.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tay has been my favorite player on the team for years, but I would rather keep Rip if we retool (assuming we don't go for a true rebuild with lots of losing... cause that would be stupid to keep any good player then).

    Rip with Afflalo backing him is almost the ideal SG solution IMO. Rip seems much more fiesty and motivated that Tay, Sheed... and even CB when he was here. He expends the most energy of any player and never seems to get tired.

    I think that a lot of Rip's struggles in our playoff exits were because we didn't have bigs in the post who could spread the floor for his jump shots. If you match Rip up with Dwight Howard, it's lights out. Match Rip up with Sheed and Dyess and put someone like Bowen on Rip, and there is nothing he can do besides force ugly drives.
  8. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Don;t know about that one Scoe. If the Bulls beat Boston and advance, I think Reinsdorf will break the bank for Gordon. If Chicago is out, I think it's a team out there who will pay him the 12 million.

    Not saying the Wizards will, but for instance, I just saw Abe Pollian on the news here in D.C., he stated that he doesn't care about the Luxury Tax and will pay whatever to improve his team.
  9. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Three games into a season with Ben Gordon....

    "This guy can't defend anyone..."

    "Our guards can play defense..."

    "Pistons DNA is about defending..."

    "Opposition guard penetration is killing us..."

    "Gordan can't stay in front of anyone..."


    And that's not even mentioning the Leecaps.
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Good point...
  11. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    1. I'm assuming this is ONLY if the Wiz end up with a top 3 or 4 pick. If that happens, do you think Rip is enough? Remember not to overvalue our players. I definately don't think we'd get a top 3-4 pick PLUS expiring contracts.

    2. I like this idea but instead of a future 1st rounder we can unload one or two of our second rounders this year.

    3. I'm on board with Sessions OR taking a PG with our #15 pick and starting Will next year (I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we go into next year thinking we're going to compete for the 'ship. Sure Boston did it but with significantly less of an overhaul).

    4. I like looking at those two options even if we get Bosh.

    5. If the draft pick scenario falls through why not look to move Rip and a pick to the Wiz for Butler or Jamison?
  12. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I think that we'd be giving too much. Now if we packaged Rip and a 2nd rounder........
  13. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    "This guy can't defend anyone" - Sounds similar to the guards we have now
    "Pistons DNA is about defending" - The Pistons DNA used to be about defending
    Gordon can't stay in front of anyone" - He stayed in front of us pretty good last game, like we got torched for how many points?
  14. Smoooth

    Smoooth First Round Draft Pick

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    Same here, he's become such a liability on both ends of the court.

    Portland has been lacking that veteran presence and Tay would be a good addition, but I doubt they would give us Oden or Lamarcus for him. Outlaw is great too but he can't handle Pierce/Lebron any better.
  15. Smoooth

    Smoooth First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree, I don't see why Ben Gordon would help save this franchise. Tbh I rather have Rip than Ben. Gordon is just a chucker/streaky shooter that the Pistons do not need at the moment.
  16. lk#1

    lk#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Gortat is the only polish player in the NBA so i can tell you something about him.

    He's an active defender. Lee should be happy cause he can move his feet and recover to his guy after pick'n'rolls. He can block shoots and he works very hard defensively. In Orlando they shoot 3's even when he's wide open under the basket so he can make a huge jump in his offensive production around players willing to pass the ball.

    He has a decent mid-range game and as far as i remember he scores on ~60% of his free throws. He started playing basketball when he was 18 or 19 and he's still improving.

    He said few times that he was looking for a 3 year deal because it will give him a chance to prove his value and sign a bigger contract when he reaches his potential. I think 12 mln for 3 years will get it done.
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Are you saying that if there was another Polish player in the NBA you wouldn't be able to tell us anything about Gorat?

    On this team they would only call him away from the basket to set a screen or throw the ball 20 feet over his head if he was open under the basket.

    He only started playing when he was 18 or 19 and is still improving? That sounds like it says Detroit Piston on his birth certificate baby. I'm sold!
  18. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    6 mln would be a coup. I was initially thinking 8-10mln tops. Especially in this climate But 12 mln? Gulp. How much will he want in 3 yrs? 18 mln?

    I guess you are talking about how much we have to offer so that Orlando does NOT match, given his restricted status. There were murmurs in the press earlier in the season about not being able to afford Turkoglu, who is FAR more crucial to the team's success and style of play (and BTW, he's Orlando's closer). I just don't see Orlando coughing up much money over 6 mln to keep a guy who plays behind Howard. Sure, his value is there when Howard is injured or suspended, but there is no reason to believe Howard will be injury prone anytime soon. If Orlando can replace Gortat with a more proven and flexible McDyess or Sheed for something like 6-7 mln over two years, via sign and trade, I suspect they would jump at it. Both players would have to think Orlando is a near ideal gig: it gives them a decent shot at the title, and playing along side Howard instead of masquerading as a 5, can only be a good thing for their respective games and the longevity of their bodies and careers.

    Because if you wanna compete at the highest level, you gotta have a closer (damn, I'm starting to sound like Bill Simmons). We lost ours in Billups. Whether you agreed with the trade or not, we need a new closer. Rip has never been able to consistently exert his will when a game is on the line to be considered a closer. Gordon has that RARE quality that no one on our team has. Is a comparison to a young Golden State Glibert Arenas, without the hype and goofiness, a good one?

    There was once a time Rip's defense was not so great. He barely made assists. He had no handle whatsoever (OK that last one is still true).

    Gordon is young and hungry for the big stage. In this economic climate he may even agree to a contract laced with performance incentives. And if not, having one of the greatest 2's as your mentor should see him improve his overall game the same way Rip's did. I say roll the dice.

    The beauty of singing a promising big like Gortat, and a killer closer like Gordon, even if it is for premium dollars, is that if things don't fully live up to expectations, there's always a GM around that will take them off your hands. Size and clutch shooting will always be in demand.
  19. lk#1

    lk#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Believe me, that Orlando is not one of the teams that i would happily watch at 3 am. The fact that he's polish makes me care more. I prefer to watch Pistons and Orlando is not even close on my list. Forgive me but the fact that he's Polish wouldn't make me watch his every game - i have better things to do.

    His age - you can always look at Amir and say that he has time to improve. But i haven't seen much of it yet. Gortat has improved every year and he makes me believe that he won't play only in garbage time because he's not improving his game. He earned everything in this league. He couldn't make the team, then he got a contract but didn't play and finally he contributes in the playoffs. I'm sure he will make the next step.

    Money - in Europe you can earn much more money. He will get propositions from the best Euroleague teams and probably other NBA teams. Kwame got similar contract to what he may be looking for. They both can play defense. On ofensive end i like Gortat more because he can catch the ball and he's a better free throw shooter. I understand the economic climate but some teams will be looking for young, big guys. I would love to see him in Popovich's system. Third year can be a team/player option and it can change the way you see the contract. There are many options, when i wrote 12 mln for 3 years i meant the best contract i see him getting.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Gordon can only get that much from teams below the cap, with $12 million in cap space. Or Chicago.

    I don't see why Chicago would overspend for a player that no one else is willing to bid up the price on.

    So that leaves Gordon's value in the hands of the teams with cap space. Which I am guessing might at best be 2 or 3 teams.

    Now out of all the free agents this offseason, how hot is Ben Gordon @ $12 million, assuming those teams don't already have commitments to their own SGs for substantial salary or minutes?

    I am pretty sure they are capped out. All he can do is add a MLE player. He can't play big in FA. He can get into the tax by overpaying his own FAs. That's about it.

    Financial reality today is that the cap might shrink, and all of these guys going onto the open market will be settling for a lot less than they would have been able to get 5 years ago.

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