Four New Starters/Let The Projections Begin

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, May 1, 2009.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, a quick look, this is what I got.

    Teams with real cap space

    Det
    Mem
    Tor
    Oklahoma

    Teams that might have cap room (approx. $8~10 million)

    Atl
    Minny

    So basically, Detroit/Memphis/Toronto/Ok City will be the only teams that set Gordon's price @ $12 million if they choose to bid that in FA.

    Now, Toronto is only in that mix because they lose Marion and Parker, two starters.

    Memphis is losing a lot of old deals. But they have OJ Mayo and Greg Buckner playing the 2.

    Det has Hamilton, Stuckey and Afflalo.

    OK, might make a play for Gordon. I can't see a need at SG for anyone else that has money. Toronto will be down Parker but they have that guy from Hawaii.
  2. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    lk, my apologies. I was thinking you mean 12 mln per year for 3 years :nerd2:.

    12 mln over 3 years is a reasonable contract. Assuming that would be enough for Orlando not to match, I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

    I would pay 18 mln over 3. That's how desperate we should be for a legit 5 not named Nazr. How far can we go with Kwame, Amir, and another draft day project in the middle?

    I agree, in Pop's system, Gortat would do very well. Hey, at least we have Coach Curry. Err... for one (half of one?) more season - tops. Let's leave "Who will be coaching the Pistons in 2011" for another thread.
  3. lk#1

    lk#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Orlando's salary is a mess. They would need to get rid of Battie to offer Gortat such a deal. Stan Van Gundy doesn't want to play him next to Howard so his role is 15 minutes at best. I can't see him staying with Magic. Orlando may try to sign and trade him for an early second round pick or late first rounder and Pistons have 3 second rounders to work with.

    Sorry for not being clear with the cotract.
  4. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Your forecast is on the money.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think if we learned anything this year it is you can never have enough 2 guards.
  6. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    True. You never know when someone's back is gonna go out.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You have to replace your weakest links. Rip is probably the strongest link we have next year. And he is under a reasonable contract. And he is expiring at season's end. I'd be more willing to sign him to an early extension than to move him.

    We really don't need the net net of Ben Gordon. If you think Prince can't guard Pierce, let's see how you like it when Ray Allen goes for 51 against us.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Hamilton is already signed to an extension. They did it right before they traded his boyfriend.
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Oh, you're right.

    "The new contract is worth $34 million, with the first two years guaranteed. The third year is only a partial guarantee." according to sources.

    So, $11.13M/ year.

    '09-'10
    + '10-'11
    + '11-'12 (at our option?)

    That means that we have him for the rest of his useful NBA life at a reasonable price.

    I guess my point is just that we need to worry about C first. PF second. SF third. If we can't find a better SF, then Tay will do... just need to avoid making him the most played player on the team year after year. Our SG position is the most secured right now. PG is next.
  10. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

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  11. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Honestly, if we swapped Curry for Doc Rivers and Sheed for the "Rue Paul of the NBA", would we still stand a chance against the Cavs? I bet we'd struggle against the Bulls and Garnett-less C's.

    I think Joe said it best when asked if he was looking to upgrade any particular position. His response was that he was simply seeking players that have an impact.

    Our back court is broken. Our front court is too. To paraphrase Ernie, the whole freakin' team is broken.

    We need guys that will change the identity of our team FIRST and FOREMOST. What position they play, and what positions we have best covered now, are far less important considerations. We just need guys that will bring a new attitude and energy to our team. Anti-Tayshaun's if you will. Additional tinkering via trades can sought the rest of that stuff out in due course.

    If you fail to reach this conclusion, after all the lackluster play we have had to stomach these past few YEARS, and after getting SWEPT in the FIRST round of the playoffs, then I want no part of whatever it is you may be smoking...
  12. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Players we may have a quasi-realistic chance of acquiring this summer, in exchange for any combination of existing players, draft picks and cap space (in no particular order of preference):

    C -Gortat (See earlier posts. We be in need of a legit 5 like Roscoe is in need of platform shoes.)
    C -Camby (one year rental for his expiring contract?)
    C -Birdman (Can't see Denver letting him walk up and leave, but it looks like they won't cough up the benjamins to sign both him AND the next guy on the list...)

    [Random thought #1: IF we replace Tay at the three, the new guy must be chosen based on his ability to do a better job of slowing LBJ/Pierce down]

    SF -Linas Kleiza (With Melo at the 3, he is more disposable than Birdman, and worth a look if youtube highlights are anything to go by.)

    [Random thought #2: would we be willing to absorb whatever is left of Kenyon Martin's contract in order to acquire one or both of the above nuggets, in exchange for one of our starters plus change? I am CERTAIN I can smell another trade of some description, be it small or large, maybe with a third team involved, going down with Denver this summer.]

    SF -Marvin Williams (another candidate as a starting SF / sixth guy?)
    SF -Dahntay Jones (as above, but undersized?)
    SF -Michael Pietrus (will Orlando be looking to free up money to put towards their 'other MVP', namely Turkoglu? Roscoe thinks he can't stay healthy.)

    G -Ben Gordon (Gets absolutely zero respect here on the PF. Sign him Joe and prove the haters wrong!)
    G -Ramon Sessions (Because no one around here likes the thought of a combo guard manning the point. I am not so sure a pure PG is absolutely essential to winning big, but that's the subject of another post altogether.)

    Am I missing anyone? (Please, for everyone's sanity, make no mention of Rue Paul, Carlos 'Flaky' Boozer, Amare 'Playground' Stoudemire, or Finding Memo).
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd like to see them go after Robert Swift (good find Tas) and Sheldon Williams to beef up the front court. Both of these guys are lottery picks who have been given up on by their teams like Chauncey Billups and would give DET an imposing duo up front to match up against the elite teams. I presume their hunger would be off the charts also.

    You get these 2 guys and we're back to looking for a strong back-up for Tay and playing into late May.
  14. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Not a particularly well received post a couple of months back, but the idea seems to have grown legs around here since the rumour hit the media. My thoughts on exactly what Joe D will do this off season have developed now, where I can make some more specific predictions other than signing BGiddy, and possibly Gortat:

    I am almost certain we have something in the works with Denver. We can give them what we gave them in the Billups trade: proven championship winning veterans. Now that they have had a taste, there is no question they want some more. They can give us further cap space to play with in the summer of 2010. How so?

    Rip and Sheed (S+T) for K-mart as the principals, with Denver including some 'high value' guy(s) in return. Birdman (S+T), Renaldo Balkman (when you get a chance to get one of Zeke's former draft picks, you do so), and Kleiza would enter into the discussion. All nice pieces for reasonable money. We may also have the option of including Amir's salary too, assuming that is what want we want do.

    Denver has little need for the cap space that K-mart's expiring deal will bring in 2010. They are already set with Melo, Nene, and Billups. They need pieces to make another run next season. Rip allows them to bring JR off the bench, a role he is most effective in (JR is a FA in 2010, so they risk losing him, demotion to the bench aside).

    George Karl is on record as stating he REALLY wanted Sheed on his ill-fated national team. And the NC connection means the love is still there.

    Bottom line for Denver: To get a couple of guys like Rip who is still in his prime, and Sheed on a MLE type deal over three years, WITHOUT having to gut their team, would be a no-brainer for them.

    As an aside, Joe has been attacked recently for the Rip extension (Sam Smith?), and our own PF members have questioned why Joe gave Billups an extension before trading him not long after. I will say this in Joe's defense. He has always maintained that player's who bring it will never have to worry about getting paid while he's in charge. This is one of the precious few selling points we have when talking to FAs, something not so salient to the average fan. Now that's been said...

    Rip's extension kicks in this summer, and goes for the next four (?) years, at around 12 mill per year (?). We lose his salary in exchange for K-mart's expiring deal, worth somewhere around 15-17 mill (91 mill over 7yrs). Add Tay's expiring deal, worth around 12 mill, and that's close to 30 million comning off the books in 2010! I'll let one of our cap experts can crunch the numbers more accurately ('Scoe?).

    Sheed ain't coming back, so a S+T is a no-brainer for both parties. The role player or two we can get thrown into the deal will sweeten things even further, and would probably HAVE to include the Birdman, so that the trade does seem so one sided to Detroit's 'sports radio fan base'.

    Now, what to do with that cap space in 2010? One of our more realistic targets would be Marc Gasol (smile Carlos!), who although is restircted, may be pried away by a huge offer from the cash-strapped Grizzlies.

    Bottom line for Detroit: with cap space, we get to take advantage of FA's and trades involving the absorbtion of salaries, THIS summer, and the NEXT, without having to gut the team in the process, and continue making the playoffs, which is the EXACT objective Joe has been working towards, since the start of last season.

    Potential lineup after the trade, but BEFORE further trades and FA signings are made to bolster things further:

    PG Stuckey
    SG Gordon (?)
    C Birdman (MLE type money in a S+T)
    SF Tay (FA in 2010)
    PF K-mart (FA in 2010)

    Key rotation:
    Kwame (FA in 2010), JMax, Bynum, Affalo, Balkman(?)

    Some thoughts:
    - That starting lineup does NOT look so good, other than the FAs in 2010 part!
    - Nevertheless, it shouldbe capable of competing for the 7th or 8th seed, which allows us to keep exposing our younger guys to PO bball for one more season. I hope.
    - The bench needs a killer sixth man, preferrably one who can play the 1,2 and a little 3. Shannon Brown for cheap? OK, not so 'killer', but diamond in the rough?
    - Does Balkman have any upside left? Was he a rotation guy in Denver? Could he guard LBJ in a PO series?
    - Birdman reduces the need to throw good money at Gortat, especially if our goal is to preserve cap space for Marc Gasol, but you can never have too many decent bigs who earn reasonable money, so I'm a little on the fence. Between Birdman, Gortat, and Kwame, we should get some good consistent production from that position for the first time in many years.
    - Our back court is too short with Bynum and Gordon in the game.
    - Joe could look at Dre Miller this summer, but he and Gordon would also be a tiny back court. Dre and Stuckey would be the poorest 3pt shooting back court in the L. So no Dre to Detroit assuming Joe will be shipping Rip to Denver.
    - I'd love to add Ariza to that lineup. We have the cash, so why not overpay? With cap relief coming 2010, we can afford it. Still can't see it happenning for all the obvious reasons.
    - Tay and K-mart's expiring deals could be used in a mid-season MONSTER trade, or two smaller ones, that turns the East upside down.
    - The future in the Motor city IS bright!
  15. bmill

    bmill First Round Draft Pick

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    Tay and Kmart aren't FA in 2010. Noway we deal Rip to Denver unless we get JR Smith. JR Smith can handle and play the 3. JR Smith, BG and Stuck would be a sweet 3 guard rotation.
  16. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I absolutely LOVE anything you type.

    Don't quit.

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  17. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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  18. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Thanks Cloud!

    Your kind and generous comment makes the hour or more I spent writing that post, at 4am in the morning (infant related sleep interruption), time worth spent. I love my Pistons.
  19. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    OK, so maybe I got the Gortat part wrong. We'll have to wait and see if Rip gets moved for K-mart.

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