Fulcrum points and misc. thoughts.

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yesterday’s loss against the Suns was disappointing, but things are becoming more finalized. The result, along with our current schedule, might work in our favor, because it points out some decision making areas JD must face in relationship to the approaching Feb. 15, 2007 deadline.

    Right now, as JD and management ponder, he should know two important facts:

    Fact one: this team, as now stands, can not win it all. It can still make the playoffs, but only because of the weak conference, and this one might be determined by the last couple of games. Amazingly, it may be all ready too late for Miami…our advantage. Also, one should not ignore, at their own peril, the month of March, 2007. Any moves to be made, if they are any, will flow against this tsunami.

    Fact two: We have a clear separation aspect splitting the team…easy enough pointing this out, which should work to our advantage (at least for clarification purposes on the weak points). This duel nature (front-end vs. back end players) is not only split, but exposes an important direction on weight distribution. How is the correct balance to be found? The administration will have to adjust this teeter-totter and a direction will have to be found in finding the best fulcrum point. This is where it gets tough.

    Where do we locate the fulcrum point?

    The short end says we bring it toward us. Which, I will clarify as making a move before the Feb 15. 2007 trading deadline. What should be obvious to us is that we have a problem with the 5-4-3 slots. Forum favorites (or non-favorites) aside, this tandem brings a distinct talent approach on how it conducts its business. I am not saying this is bad, but how can we determine if it fits a talent mold that now has latched deeply into the NBA?
    ______________________
    Here is the Stern-like (The Image) big picture. You need action to provide the pseudo-events that can sell themselves. This means adding proper images for the extensions to take effect:
    • Organizations (expansion, superstars, corporate sponsors)
    • Economics (ownership dependency from periphery to the center and accumulation)
    • Political Process (concentration of power, propaganda, selectivity, acquiesce from the masses)
    • Culture/sub-culture (personalities and roles fit the projections of expectations piggy-backed on the images or pseudo-events).
    _______________________

    We can easily see that Detroit is caught short from having the last few years of successful playoff campaigns (lack of high draft picks; save one, which took years to work out) and a particular organization emphasis of astutely molding work ethic (defense) with available talent (values in proportion to dollars spent). In the mean time, things have quickly changed in your dad’s NBA.

    Turning to the short end again. Can any changes (I am assuming they would have to be somewhat incremental) be made to the team which will solidify winning it all? I say this is highly unlikely. It would be much better to concentrate on what talent (at this period of time) you can get out of the present players. Also, because talent flows from player maturation and at times, unique placement opportunities, it behooves one to survey your bench (and other teams) talent. Any movement toward final action or eventual player movement should be done with caution. This is important because we have a huge doppelgänger hovering over the scene…CB’s contract status. All moves in and out of the harbor will have to directed by this beacon, which will direct all team moves. It has not been lost on other league teams, that there is no guarantee of a player not walking during his FA status when signed in mid-season.

    Moving the fulcrum outward (end of season) gives you a big advantage: time for some strategic thinking. Seeing developments during the season unfold with regard to player’s abilities (hopefully under pressure situations); other league players; other team movements; budgets; FA; and availability with Euro and draft pickings. Most important, the CB situation will be finalized.

    For the average team, this last paragraph is typical organizational housekeeping. What I am interested in seeing is the approached JD takes with regard how his team stacks up for the next season with regard toward league emphasis. He also should be aware of the cultural element he has been part of with this team and how he might have to adapt to changing times. I hope he is having good arguments with staff.

    What will be the final result is anyone’s guess. Most know my emphasis on team direction, and some of you might be surprised to know that I am not completely sold on changes for changes sake. I am not high on the recent youth movement, which is seriously affected the league and complicates Union accountability. This also feeds into the image loop with drafting protocols and how it works against the leagues’ best interest.

    Speaking of drafting (which most of the time is trade fodder for me)…here is an aside from yesterday’s game with the Suns:

    • Stoudemire….Suns draft pick 9 in first round (2002)….…31 pts. scored
    • Nash………...Suns draft pick 15 in first round (1996)…...35 pts. scored
    • Marion………Suns draft pick 9 in first round (1999) ……15 pts. scored
    • Barbosa……..Suns draft pick 22 in first round (2003)….. 8 pts. scored
    --------------------------
    89 pts

    Good team direction (I will leave out strategic), good high draft picks, and league rule changes have been very kind to the Suns.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Great topic. I have a lot of unorganized thoughts on this to post as I get some time.
     
  3. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Under culture/sub-culture, Stern should put out a rap video featuring the refs doing some kind of 3 blind mice montage.
    ---
    Here are some of the words:
    We're the 3 blind refs
    We don't like the "Dirty Dancing Defense"
    That's why will whistle the ticky-tack touch fouls.
    We're the 3 blind Refs.
    ---
    One should have tape over his mouth and when Sheed complains
    he points to his taped over mouth.
    The other ref has an iPod going.
    Sheed gets a facial but there's a ref with thick glasses on just standing there.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    A couple seasons ago, the Spurs beat us. They beat us with a little French PG (looks little next to Tim Duncan and Eva) and a whirling dervish flopping SG from Argentina.

    I started to wonder, how a team like the Spurs, could be so dominant in the West, essentially playing an Eastern Conference style not too far removed from the Larry Brown Sixers/Pistons and the Pat Riley Knicks/Heat.

    How had they been able to find room in their lineup for 2 internationally trained players, let alone 3 at times (Rasho Nesterovic).

    It bothered me. It still bothers me that the Miami Heat won a title last season without a single non-american on the roster.

    While I will always say you have to use the best players available, regardless of age, colour or nationality, it says something about the fact that one franchise has translated defence first basketball with Internationals in the West, and none of have done it in the East.

    Here are the top NBA internationals from the All-Star Voting.

    Western Conference

    Kirilenko
    Diaw
    Gasol
    Nowitzki
    Stojakovich
    Barbosa
    Nash
    Ginobili
    Parker
    Okur
    Ming

    Eastern Conference

    Nocioni
    Turkoglu
    Brezec
    Krstic
    Pachulia

    This season Toronto grabbed Bryan Colangelo from the Phoenix Suns to be the new GM. This is the man who hired Mike D'Antoni (an American who played and coached in Italy) and assembled the pieces you currently see on the Suns roster.

    His most notable moves are drafting the first European to go #1 in the draft (Andrea Bargnani), signing Euroleague star Anthony Parker, trading for Rasho Nesterovic and adding Spanish star Jorge Garbajosa.

    But the real move, the one that required strategic thinking was signing Bargnani's mentor and European front office guru Maurizio Gherardini. This man is completely plugged into the European basketball scene in a way that Tony Ronzone could only dream about.

    I worry that the Spurs have found a way to build with international talent in the West, while the remaining teams there are riding the talent and star power of internationals. And now one of those architects of forward thinking is in the East and surrounding himself with the best talent not in the NCAA as well as the front office clout that opens up the world market to their team building.

    Darko, Delfino, good, great or not is irrelevant. There is a talent pool that we seem to only toss skipping stones at, rather than establishing a presence in and hiring the best of the foreign markets to gain a competitive advantage.

    I'm not knocking domestic talent. I just don't feel like an exceptional amount of due diligence is being done, in a time where foundations can be laid, in these emerging basketball markets.

    The NBA is becoming more focused on athletes who can shoot and pass. It seems we keep drafting for the former and neglect the latter.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    In a way, winning the title in 2004 has put Joe Dumars in a position where he doesn't receive a lot of scrutiny. Let's face it, he's a great guy, he just went into the hall of fame, and he is a Detroiter, a Piston for life.

    Just the same, his thinking process has elevated when he has stepped out of conventional Pistons management methods by doing what his BadBoy GM had done. He turned over players and coaches with regularity looking for that perfect mix, that lightning in a bottle. That is why Jack McCloskey was called "The Trader". The number of moves he made as GM in 10 years were substantial and frequent.

    Dumars at one time had the jet fueled up to complete an Iverson trade. He was crushed when an injured Grant Hill went to Orlando (how would that have killed us?). He made an offer to Chris Webber (pre-knee injuries). This was all conventional thinking. But when he compiled enough pieces to make the Rasheed Wallace trade possible, while grabbing the lesser regarded but very important Mike James and returned Lindsey Hunter this was the kind of rule exploitation, cap manipulation genius that he gained his reputation for and to this day seems to make the wasted #2 pick somewhat acceptable given the results.

    We've got another thread talking about a Dantley for Aguirre type trade. It's shifted from the initial talk of trading Billups to possibly moving Sheed. The Dantley/Aguirre trade was one of the most important in Pistons history. Are we at that point?

    I don't know. But I believe that Joe will have to become much more cunning, much less enamoured with his current roster and far more aggressive if the Pistons hope to do more than compete in a weak Eastern conference.
     
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I think we'll see soon. Once we face some teams that we know we'll meet later (Bulls on the 6th) we'll see how the team does. The Bulls game will be a perfect test. Chauncey might not be their, Bulls are 14-2 at home, Bulls are doing great both offensively and defensively. Both teams want to win this game so if the Pistons win maybe their doesn't have to be a big trade just a tweak, if Chauncey is not their and the rest of the Pistons step up then their probably won't be a big trade as well.

    At least the Pistons have improved a lot on the boards. They've lost because of TO's and that will be fixed for sure. The Pistons lead the league in fewest TO's this trend of making crucial turnovers should end soon.
     
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Good direction Micro.
    Himat I don't think it will hinge on one game. But it will be a good measuring stick. I last I checked we owned Chi.
    As far as Dantley/Aguire that was a ball hog SF for something a little more unselfish[smarter?] That's not our problem this time. It's PF and C.
    I think.
    As far as JD/Colangelo he should develope a good relationship, bright minds think brightly.
     
  8. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    I think the future is in the Euroleagues. The biggest problem with Darko was taking him so early. Compare him with Bargnani. They're both the same age, but Bargnani stayed in Europe. Darko should have learned how to play Euro ball, before trying to play NBA ball.

    As for Joe, he better not let the Darko Debacle scare him off. Matured Euros have done fine, and will become a huge part of the league. Look at Okur, imagine Delfino without the knee problem. Look at Nocioni and Barbosa.

    Nocioni was an undrafted 25 year old when he came into the league. How many more players like him are there across the pond? Forget about taking undeveloped 18 year olds, get the NBA ready 21+ year olds from Europe.
     
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    With as many Americans over there now it's becoming an international talent pool. Any word on Acker? I know he's on ice for 2 years.
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Thing I have been wondering about. What does our team stand for now? They are no longer the leagues hardest working team, no longer boast a no-fly zone. No true superstar to take on the identity of.

    Just kind of another good team that will make the playoffs and probably will get out of the 1st round. After that the East is up for grabs to the hottest team. So they can still do it, but they will need a lot of things to line up just right.

    Immediate problems are with frontline defense. Where is it? Dumars used to pride himself on the frontcourt, and now we get Mohamed? That was his answer? Need to rebuild that frontcourt. More easily said than done but it has to happen. Bite the bullet and try to get at least one dominate frontcourt player and if he gets injured then he gets injured. Nothing is guaranteed in sports anyway. Can Sheed still be considered one of the leagues elite? How many 6 point 3 board games has he put up when we really needed him.

    Not really sure what the direction of this thread was supposed to be. Fading league talent? It started to fade when so many HS players were plucked out of high school and were never given the chance to mature their games in college. How many potential stars were crushed by that?

    This year is supposed to be a pretty deep draft which lines up perfecly with the age restriction 3 years ago so that should tell us something.

    World talent? Bronze metal in the Olympics and a poor placement in last years games. That should speak for itself. Part of the problem is the American players getting too sloppy with the NBA style. This could be why things like travelling are being called so often now. You can't base your game around loose whistles in the International games. Time to clean up the NBA as we are no longer alone in the world.
     
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    We need to quit trying to get diamonds in the rough and just get diamonds.

    IMO, we need to stop focusing on a backup PG and get an "heir apparent" PG. I'm pulling for Blalock but the guy is going to be a career backup point. Flip Murray is a stop gap only.

    I think we should play out the season with the team at hand and if possible package Sheed and a pick to move up to select a good point guard. Sign Chauncey for whatever and groom your next pg under CB's watch.
     
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Max I think Amir needs another year. But how good is he?
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Who me?

    I don't really know. Amir looks good and he did great in the pre-season but I can't say for sure until I see him during an actual game when its still on the line.

    What do you think?
     
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    What's a fulcrum point? :confused:
     
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    The point or support on which a lever pivots. The key and related impression you should have picked up was from the teeter-totter.

    Most see the teeter-totter as having a center point of pivot (fulcrum point as called by me). I merely played a different center point length...by moving the point away or toward your particular perspective. Doing so might add a different insight by unbalancing emphasis.

    If your pulling-my-leg...ok, I fell for it. If not and you did not catch the analogy, then I still lost. My bad.
     
  16. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    The point of this thread was to stimulate some good thinking. You, my friend, are doing an excellent job.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Just giving you a hard time. Sometimes, I think we tend to over-analyze things. I appreciate your effort, though, as well as your attempt to stimulate some thinking.
     

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