game 7 anger

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by bball jay, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    SAN Series

    Throughout that whole series SAN's 3-pt shots made the difference in each of their wins. But if look at their season totals they were middle of the pack on 3-pt attempts.

    They played a good series.
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Read the thread. One thing nobody pointed out is that it was Ben guarding Duncan after Dyess was sat with 4 fouls. Ben was doing a horrid job of guarding Duncan. Tay did get switched onto Duncan and that was no better. It was the big combo of Tay and Ben that people object to, not specifically the Tay-Duncan matchup. Bad coaching.

    And why was it bad coaching? Foul trouble should be nothing you are all that scared of if you got an agile 7 foot player over on the bench for emergencies. But Brown did play scared, not letting Dyess stay in there with the 4 fouls. What Brown was scared of is Darko getting even the remotest possibility of getting playing time.
     
  3. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Darko

    I agree Dyess should have been put back in, but the middle of the 7th game of the NBA finals is NOT the time to put in a guy like Darko who has mostly played garbage time. I agree it probably was a huge mistake not to have placed him in a position (by giving him meaningful minutes during the season) where he WOULD be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I'm only saying that if Darko were put in THAT game, it was POSSIBLE he would do well but highly IMPROBABLE. Even most of the veteran starters admitted to having some jitters before the game.

    Can you imagine where his already low confidence level would be if he suffered the same fate as Prince? People know Prince can play and didn't blame him, but they would have torn Darko a new one. Yeah, it would have been a great Cinderella story to see him come in and be a hero. Unfortunately, it probably wasn't going to happen and it just wasn't worth taking the risk at that point.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Fouls

    Fouls: Technical: Unsportsmanlike - One free throw for each.
    Personal: you can play with up to 5 at 6 you must leave game. If you foul a shooter, he gets 2 FT. Otherwise, side out.
    Team: I don't know.
     
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    To Lee356, that's cold blooded

    :redface: Cause if he succeeded, coach would have dirt on his face.
     
  6. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    i never understood why LB sticked to that damn small ball stuff. Was there ever a game in which it worked out? As I can remember, our opponnents always profited from small ball.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And if he failed, his confidence would be shattered forever. Do you honestly think a rookie type player like DMC could recover from a Rasheed Wallace sized mistake in the Finals? I don't.
     
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Additionally...

    Ralph, You do not play an NBA finals game with a strategy designed to embarrass your own coach! Besides, the coach makes the strategy.

    You'll end up embarrassing your entire franchise doing that kind of stuff.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Agreed. Although people still feel terrible about Game 7, the series was lost much earlier. By not having homecourt, by arguing with the refs in the Miami series and letting that drag on, by coming out flat the first two games, and by allowing the home loss in Game 5.

    I hope some of you have some closure. I know the world blames Larry Brown, and that's fair enough. He's gonzo.:bolt:

    Rather than associate Rasheed with the Finals loss, the organization made it clear that LB would be the one to pay the price for coming up short, deserved or not.
     
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i don't think darko would have even knew the magnitude of the situation he was in. i think he would have came in played his natural game. i think san antonio probably would have went at him with a one on one play which plays right into darko's strengths. darko would have stuffed a few of duncan's shots or at least altered them. they would not have torn darko a new one even if he came in and did horribly cause it would only be 2 minutes in the 3rd quarter. it's not like duncan would have hit a last minute shot on him. i thing i will say about darko he's never seemed nervous about playing. he's seemed nervous about pissing lb off but never about being on the court. darko's confidence levels are directly related to lb not his on the court play. i never see darko get down about shooting an airball or missing a stuff. he comes right back and tries again this would not have messed with his confidence unless lb cussed him out for fouling duncan. you say it wasn't worth the risk. was it worth the risk trying to have tay play power forward in the game with your already undersized center?? lb felt it wasn't worth the risk to get shown up by a punk euro center on national tv in the biggest game of the season. he'd rather lose than have that happen.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    bball jay,

    Tay ended up on Duncan via a switch. It could just as easly been Chauncey, Rip, anyone.

    I'm not knocking Darko. What I am saying is, if the kid comes in and gets embarassed by Duncan (which is entirely possible because Duncan is one of the 5 greatest PFs of ALL TIME) and they end up losing, it could have been very damaging to his confidence.

    The thing that you have a good case to be angry about, is DMC not getting more run during the year. But by Game 7 of the NBA Finals, it was way too late to throw the kid in and expect a miracle. We would have been better off playing beyond 4 fouls (again an LB screw up).

    Darko's gunna be fine bro. He's got 10~14 years ahead of him. He won't even peak for another 6 or 8 seasons.
     
  12. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Jay

    If Darko did not know the magnitude of the situation, he would have to be a complete idiot. Did you listen to what Billups had to say recently about how Darko was on the court? He didn't even smile in practice. I totally disagree with you. Darko looked like a nervous wreck in most games that I saw him. I'm not going to address where the blame should be placed.

    I'm no Brown fan as I've said many times. I don't particularly care for what he did with the young guys. But I will never agree with anyone that says the man intentionally blew the game or that he sat back when he BELIEVED Darko could win it and nevertheless witheld him from playing. Again, I am not saying Brown NEVER held him back...I AM saying that at that particular time, Darko almost surely would have failed.

    I wanted to see Darko play all year too. This year we will see if he is good or not. I'm thinking and hoping that he will be.
     
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    microwave,
    yes. i agree darko should not have been the first choice. if i was coaching i would have let mcdyess stay in and foul out. my second choice at that time would have been elden. my thoughts on darko only came recently as i hear about him in europe blocking shots and playing aggressive d. it made think he didn't just suddenly become a shot blocker once he crossed the atlantic. darko could have did the job. yes it could have been very damaging to his confidence if he didn't get it done. but it also could have unleashed a monster on the league if he came in and shut duncan down. after tay gave t-mac trouble i think it gave him the confidence that he could check pretty much anybody in the league. darko would not have even checked duncan probably. it's just instead of tay getting stuck on the switch duncan would have had a strong, athletic, 7 foot shot blocker on the switch.

    darth tater,
    darko didn't smile in practice that doesn't mean he wouldn't have smiled in the game. i saw darko smile after hitting to semi clutch free throws in the ny game i believe it was. i saw darko smile getting a block on shaq after shaq was fouled. darko's nervous wreck look is probably directly related to lb not to the magnitude of games.

    why are you so sure darko would have failed? could he have done worse than tay on duncan? even if darko had failed it would not have lost us the game it would have bought us 2 minutes. you are right though lb did not believe darko could win us the game. that's the problem lb didn't think darko could do anything all year. i think it was more a disbelief/dislike of darko that influenced lb's decision not a lack of ability.

    he will be good this year. i've seen it, chauncey, ben, sheed and elden have seen it. you will see it too. remember this thread at the start of the season when other people see it and wonder why brown chose to go small instead of huge in game 7 of the finals. veterans aren't the only ones that can play well in the finals. we could be sitting on 2 championships. if lb had exhausted all options.
     
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Jay

    What Darko does next year has nothing to do with how he would have performed in last years final game. What Darko does in Europe is an indication of what he MIGHT do in the NBA.

    I never said I was CERTAIN Darko would fail in that game. I said that it was improbable that he would succeed at that point in time. You put words into my mouth that i did not say.

    I also did not say Darko would NEVER succeed or that he would not be good next year. In fact, I said I thought he would be good.


    Do you believe what Chauncey said?

    If you answer yes: then you should believe Darko was not confident due to Larry and would have probably failed in a game 7 pressure situation. Larry tore him up and would not let him play when he deserved to play.

    If you answer NO then you should believe that Brown treated him fairly and that Darko simply was NOT good enough to play. Therefore, he would fail in a game 7 NBA finals scenario.

    Either way, Darko is likely to fail.

    Not JUST Darko, but anyone in a situation similar to Darko. Please read what I say more carefully in the future so that you do not change what I have said. I said in a much earlier post what Micro has since told you twice. I said, essentially, that IF Darko failed, the public would tear him a new one, and he would be ruined for sure.

    At any rate, it's over. The Pistons had a GREAT year. Next year may be even better. Why can't we let it go and look forward? Maybe without Brown we beat the Spurs. Maybe without Brown we don't even get by the Heat. Who can say? We can sit here and second guess Brown on whatever we want. Either way, the Pistons lost to an excellent team. We cannot change that. I don't think we have much to complain about, really. Save it for the Lions!!!!
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Darth, I don't think the confidence shattering thing is all that valid. The same argument could have been used to not let Tay play, and just let the team lose to Orlando.

    When it comes time to win a Championship, hurting somebody's feelings should definitely come in 2nd. Besides, people learn by failure.

    And besides, we are just talking about an emergency situation. If Darko was not going to used for that, then him even being on the playoff roster was wrong.

    Micro, you left off your list Darko not being prepared to play by getting playing time. Not going to argue with you about that, but just remember your omission and lets see what you think after you see Darko play a bit. He was ready to play and soon we will all know that as fact.
     
  16. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee

    I disagree that confidence is overrated. I believe it means a great deal to an athlete, if not to everyone.

    I think the Prince situation was different. While I believe he was misused, I think he was older than Darko and also did not live in another country most of his life and therefore he had more support systems nearby and did not experience culture shock. Tay was better equipped to handle it and rebound from it. Also Orlando in the first round is quite different than the NBA finals midway through game 7.

    "Hurting feelings"...not even sure what you mean. Do you mean Darko. I'm not talking about insulting him, I am talking about possibly ruining him. Big difference.

    Lastly, I too can only speculate as to why he was on the playoff roster wasting away. Regardless, it does not justify using him in that particular situation at that particular time.

    I'm not going to debate over whether he COULD have been more ready than he was. Personally, I wanted to see him given a chance. Personally, my GUESS is that yes, he should have been handled differently and could have contributed more than he did. How much more, I won't even speculate. I'm rooting for him. I hope he will succeed. And I am guessing he will succeed.
     
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Darth, Darko's feelings may have gotten hurt by doing poorly in a crunch game. But then again, which would hurt more: Not getting to play while your team came oh so close to winning it all. Or getting to play and failing. I submit that in the long run, Darko would rather have played regardless of the circumstances. Indeed, I bet if Darko had been put in at that time, and did half way ok on Duncan, we would have won that game and Brown would still be our coach. Just my guess.
     
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee

    I think if he "failed" he would have been a scapegoat and blamed for the Pistons losing the championship. Under those circumstances, I think the kid would prefer not to take the risk. It would not be fair to him.
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    No, Darko would not have been blamed. If Larry Brown would have done the right thing, leaving Dyess in, and then we got into further foul trouble to where Darko had to come in, his performance, if not good enough, would not be considered his fault. Rather, people would point at Brown for not havine Darko ready to play.

    You just don't have your emergency center completely unready to play. (However, that is conjecture only that he was not ready to play. Only Brown said that, and that makes it most likely untrue all by itself.)

    I believe Darko would have done quite a bit better than Ben or Tay in guarding Duncan. Just plain common sense that a guy with Darko's height, reach, etc would have the physical tools Ben and Tay lacked for this task.
     
  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Ok Lee. Not to be rude, but I think I've said all I can about this matter.
     

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