Grade the Pistons!

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by kpaav, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    Its mid season and SI has published their grades of every NBA team. Here is what they say about the good guys:

    Detroit Pistons: D-
    16-26, No. 10 in the East
    This has been another in a long line of pointless seasons for the Pistons, who are stuck in the below-average muck thanks to questionable decision after questionable decision and bad contract after bad contract from management. The worst part of this season has been the franchise’s handling of Andre Drummond. One of the most promising and productive rookies in the 2012 class has played 30 minutes or more just twice even though he is averaging 13.6 points, 13.4 rebounds, 2.9 blocks and 1.6 steals per 36 minutes. There’s no explanation for that. Making matters worse, Brandon Knight and Greg Monroe — the Pistons’ other two building blocks — haven’t taken significant steps forward either.


    Pretty blunt assessment from an outsider that probably only connects with the Pistons by reading the box scores 5 minutes before writing the article. I think the grade is a little low, but not by much. Especially since the bad contracts he mentions are from previous years.

    On another note. How bad does that 0-9 start (or whatever the exact carnage was) look now. What is it about Frank that his teams start so slow. A win in November is worth the same in March.
  2. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,230
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    I think the assessment is completely accurate...although I might just give them a "D" for a grade.
  3. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Gender:
    Male
    Month by month:
    November: F
    December: C
    January: B

    Overall: C-


    This year, it took us 16 games to notch 5 wins.
    Last year, it took us 25 games to do the same.
    We're moving in the right direction. We are on target to reaching .500 within 10 games of the season by the 2014-15 campaign.
    del and Laimbrane like this.
  4. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    windsor
    If Tidbit is still coaching by then? I will be officially an " anybody but the Pistons fan" because if he is still here and Dumars is still here? then Gores obviously doesnt care about the fans, or winning.
  5. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    As to Lawrence Frank, what are or should be the expectations for this team. I honestly figured we would be close tot he 8th seed, but see tremendous improvement form the last year. It is a players league, but then again certain organizations / coaches seem to get more from their players. In Frank's tenure one can honestly say that players have regressed: Austin Daye (yes). Charlie V (yes). Stuckey (double yes). Ben Gordon (yes). Young players have not improved considerably. Monroe (yes) BK (yes) Summers (yes). Of the rest, Tay and Maxiel are about the same. Where is the coaching? Why has Stuckey looked so bad? Yes he doesn't fit in the system, but the guy has scored over 40 points in a game. you have to have some skills to do that. Yet, considerable deterioration. CV as well. Like him or hate him he did average over 16 points a a game. Now lucky to have any positive impact. Monroe went from promising Big Man to being discussed as TRADE BAIT for draft picks. REALLY? 3 years ago we thought we had a steal, but now want to trade him away. BK7 to the same extent somewhat. Drummond looks legit, but for how long? If these other players are getting worse or not improving isn't that a red flag for a change? If Gores is the house cleaner he is suppose to be, how is he so confident that the current regime is competent to lead the rebuild.

    So, Lawrence Frank cannot develop players. His plays out of timeouts suck (see yesterdays loss to Bulls and the pathetic Stuckey iso that should have failed). Multiple years of long losing streaks out of training camp that scream not prepared. What skills is this guy bringing to the table to offset these obvious weaknesses. I would argue that Golden State and Detroit are not as far off on a pure talent level than the records would otherwise indicate, yet Mark Jackson is a young innovative coach where we hired another retread that has a history of underachievement. I don't know the exact numbers, but Frank also had a historic losing streak with New Jersey as well. That's two different teams and the same result. I think I am at the time where I need a change at the top.
    Woody, Nemo and copper like this.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    WHOA! Hold up! Are you trying to compare Brandon Knight to Steph Curry? Kyle Singler (or Stuckey) to Klay Thompson? David Lee to Jason Maxiel? No, Mark Jackson got a young- yet talented team to work with. As a rookie Curry averaged 17.5ppg, 6asts and shot 46.2% from the field and 43.7% from beyond the arc........If Brandon Knight were doing that, we'd be a helluva lot better. David Lee has essentially been a 20&10 player 3 of the last 4 years....IF Monroe could do that, we'd be a helluva lot better. What Mark Jackson is doing is getting those gifted offensive players to play defense and is instilling toughness into them. Our "team leader/captain" is a glue guy/role player that is a career 13ppg scorer........Apples and Oranges. Heck Golden State's backup PG (Jarrett Jack 12.5ppg and 6 asts, 48% fg and 37% 3fg) is better than any guard on our entire roster!
  7. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,008
    Likes Received:
    1,235
    Spot on analysis by the SI writer.
  8. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,698
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I knew it was coming.
    ...it was just a matter of where it was coming from.
    basketbills and BillLaimbeer like this.
  10. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,698
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    My grading scale might be different due to the fact that I think I had a different (read: more realistic) set of objectives prior to the season starting. I'm gonna evaluate from this persepctive.

    Goals (in blue):
    1. Define and establish an inventory of what pieces (players) we have currently and what we need to become a championship contender in 2-4 years.
    Well, we know that Andre Drummond is a potential franchise changing player so that's good. We know that Kyle Singler can be an important glue-guy off the bench that can play both swing positions. We also know that the more established pieces on this team are what they are and basically, they've showed us everything that they have to give.

    As far as accomplishing this objective, I give the Pistons a barely passing grade due to the fact that they've at least done the bare minimum (but most important task) of knowing what they have in Dre Drummond. The score is low due to the fact that there are still so many things that we DON'T know about this team.
    Can Kris Middleton, Ken English, Slava Kravtsov play? We need to know what we have so we can decide what to do with these guys. Is English a killer outside shooter and lockdown defender or another dime-a-dozen 2nd rounder? Can TRG live up to his highlight reel and be a solid defensive & rebounding big? Can Middleton give us more than the mind-numbingly average stat line that Prince gives us every game?
    Is Austin Daye worth keeping? What is his value? Does this kid have the courage to even play in the NBA?
    Can Jonas Jerebko be the role player that we thought he could be 2 seasons ago? Can he be a good compliment to Drummond? Can he be a stretch-4 that actually plays defense on this team? Can Jeb play SF?

    Can a starting front line of Monroe & Drummond be a force to be reconed with for the next 12 years?

    ...Way too many unanswered questions at this point in the season. Too much time spent chasing the 8th seed and not enough time spent chasing future CHAMPIONSHIPS!
    Grade: D-

    2. Establish an identity and a team culture.
    NOTHING has been done in this regard. The Pistons are a rudderless ship with no leadership or direction. They're not a defensive team. They're not a wide-open fastbreak team. They're not the team that flawlessly executes their halfcourt sets and plays smart. They're a different team each game. I know that it's hard to establish an identity when your roster is a mess but the leadership of the Pistons could at least have a little vison beyond a 10 game stretch and establish a plan for the future.
    Grade F

    3. Generate some excitement, optimism and fan interest.
    It's pretty obvious that this hasn't been done as the number of empty seats at the Palace is freaking scary. I'm actually more optimistic than in year's past due to the increased opportunity of roster movement and the fact that the core is young. Still, nothing is being done to win back the fans in my opinion.
    Playing your best player more than 20 minutes per night might be a step in the right direction. NOT playing the crap players that drove fans away in the first place might be another. Tayshaun Prince's game ain't gonna sell tickets folks! Rolling a young/hungry bunch of draft picks that haven't yet worn out their welcome in Detroit just might work. When Ken English subbed into the Orlando game (in garbage time) a couple days ago, I actually got excited to see the kid play.
    I haven't had that feeling about Rodney Stuckey since 2008.
    Grade D
    coynejeremy, copper and Walter like this.
  11. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    No way am I saying that, just using hyperbole that good coaching can make a roster. Take this year out and the GSW were sub 0.400 3 out of last 4 years only squeezing a .439 record in 2010-2011. This roster they have now is not dramatically different than years past. Before Mark Jackson they had Klay Thompson, Curry, Monta Ellis, David Lee, etc. Yet only won 3 out 10 games. What happened? They lost a 20 ppg player in Monta Ellis and replaced him with Jarret Jack. You say David Lee is the same player this years as in the past. Curry was balling as a rookie. So where are these extra wins coming from? I say good coaching rather than roster overhaul. Shouldn't have mentioned Pistons except wanted to make the point that we are not THAT far away. Drummond is capable of being as impactful as Curry, maybe more with defense. Wanted to make a point coaching matters and we failing in that regard.
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Coaching does indeed matter and Mark Jackson has gotten something out of this team that his predecessors could not, BUT that team had LEGIT TALENT, this team does not. Truthfully when you consider that our leading scorer is Greg Monroe and he averages 15ppg, I'm shocked that we're even playing close to 400 basketball with an legit chance to make the playoffs. THIS team has also demonstrated that they can compete and even build solid leads against good NBA teams, what they can't do is win, and that's a product of being young and not having a bonafied Go-To player in the clutch, Bynum is our best player in terms of getting his own.........and that ain't a good thing. So if you have a young team, that doesn't have any all-star talent on it, yet they continue to improve throughout the season so much to the point where they become competitive on a nightly basis........who gets the blame/credit? Considering the roster I give Frank a "B"
    J-Train and linwood like this.
  13. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    Fair enough. I guess I just want my coaches to make guys like Monroe an All Star talent before praising them. Where you see Frank coaching this team to play to the wire against good teams, I see Drummond and Bynum playing play ground ball to lift the team during that winning stretch to actually give them some life, not coaching. I see a coach that has had some historically long losing streaks and unprepared teams coming out of training camp. I see an ultra conservative coach that plays "consistent" guys like Tay and Maxiel because he know the team will at least not embarrass themselves and maybe he can keep his job. I see major regression from Monroe and Stuckey. Can you learn to shoot better? The answer is no for the Pistons I suppose. I see a PG / turnover machine in Knight that also has hit a rut in progressing his game. I see plays out of time out where I wonder if the refs will be forced to blow the whistle because the ball just can't find an open player. Have the Pistons starters even completed a successful Pick and roll? He isn't a horrible coach, but in my opinion not the coach for this team. He can coach vetran laden eams lie those in NJ, but not young teams that need coaching and an identity. Though Joe isn't helping him much. I would have loved to be in that interview that "blew everyone out of the water."
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Dude, it's a players league. Whether we want to admit it or not, in the NBA it isn't a coaches job to make players better and they surely don't coach them up to All-Star status. You think Stuckey has regressed? Really? When was ever actually good? Monroe is actually over achieving when you consider how he looked when he arrived, he looked like an all out bust, now he's a 15&9 Center...not bad, but sometimes you have to accept that players are who they are. Around here we always seem to wait for players to take the next step, but more often than not there is no "next step". How long have we been waiting for Tay to become a 20ppg all-star SF? Heck I'll settle for 15PPG at this point. And Brandon Knight.......if you watched him at Kentucky you'd see that he really isn't that good of a PG, every knock on him coming out of college was 100% accurate, which is why he fell to us. College coaches develop players, in the NBA....not so much. Now grant it, you do have the Larry Brown's of the world (who seem to destroy just as many players as they develop) but Brown is a coaching purist who loves to teach the game and develop "certain" players and those coaches are rare in today's NBA.
    Nemo and coynejeremy like this.
  15. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    Cool. Then why fire all these coaches?
  16. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    But I see what your saying. I agree out of all the sports it is a players league, but coaches can put players in the best situation to win at the very least. Hold players accountable to some degree for their play. They can't be completely useless or have no effect considering teams employ so many assistants.
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Somewhere in between our trains of thought lies reality
    kpaav likes this.
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,230
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Because of...........

    1. bad suits.
    2. twitching
    3. not enough upper mgmt butt kissing
    4. in game management
    5. looking for new employment too soon.
    basketbills and brofmfa like this.
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I don't understand why Frank cut the minutes of CCG and Daye. The team was winning. All year I've been told that I'd be killing the 2nd unit by having the audacity to suggest that they should be playing Drummond more.

    Frank should get credit for resurrecting these guys and turning them into something useful, but they finally had a successful group and I'm guessing he abandoned it all in the name of getting Stuckey back on the floor.

    The Pistons will go where Max and Stuckey can take them.
  20. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    windsor
    The truth is, no one knows what is going on in Tidbits head...my best guess? the hampster fell off the wheel.

Share This Page