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Grading Coach Michael Curry

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jan 31, 2009.

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What Grade do you give Michael Curry so far this season?

Poll closed Feb 11, 2009.
  1. A+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. A-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. B+

    1.5%
  5. B

    4.5%
  6. B-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. C+

    6.1%
  8. C

    19.7%
  9. C-

    10.6%
  10. D

    31.8%
  11. F

    25.8%
  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Was that a poem?



    There are things that a coach can control and there are things that a coach cannot control.

    * At most levels (in college, you can recruit), a coach has to play the hand he is dealt. For MC, he has some talent, but the problem is that the talent isn't balanced between the positions. The only thing MC can do is be creative in how he tries to maximize the talent he is putting on the floor. As a coach, you can experiment a little, but at some point, the constant changing of lineups and rotations really appears as if MC is grasping at straws.

    * A coach needs to communicate his expectations and the role for each player. This seems to be a big issue at many levels of basketball. You often hear: "I don't know why I'm not playing. Ask the coach." You have to wonder what Kwame Brown is thinking these days.

    * A coach by himself does not control the outcome of individual games. A coach should put players on the floor in situations where they have the best chance to succeed, but ultimately it is the players that have to pass, score, rebound, defend and execute.

    * In-game adjustments (changing defensive assignments, running certain plays, slow it down, speed it up, etc.) by a coach can improve chances for winning, but again, the players have to make plays. I had a kid on my 7th grade team this past year that could break a press by himself. It didn't matter what press break I told the team to run. If the ball got in this kid's hands, we were golden.

    * I played basketball for over 20 years before I first coached. The same thing with baseball. Playing and coaching are two completely different beasts. It takes a few years before you really become comfortable coaching a sport. I'm afraid MC is learning on the job. The Pistons are losing as a consequence.
     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    So Cloud this is just your way of being nonconformist ,for lack of a better word.
    I think I remember a cool-aid avatar. You were drinking it. Curry is gonna make the players accountable etc.
    -
    As for plays I don't like, it's not that so much as rotations and lack of a floor general and a game plan we can perfect.
    -
    We all know what AI is. Why isn't he running the offense? Is he not good enough to garner this responsibility ? He let's Tay run the O, so what is he saying ?
    He already knew the players and their skills, so why the lack of order.
    -
    If maintaining a .550 record with this group is fine for the regular season, I forsee
    big problems in the P/Os.
    You like the chaos of losing.
     
  3. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I believe I understand what Cloud was trying to say. I kind of feel like people are ganging up on the guy for giving Curry a high grade. No, I don't agree with that grade. Far from it. But all he was saying is that he doesn't feel comfortable questioning him when Curry has a much greater basketball I.Q. than he does, even though it appears Curry is an imbecile to many of us.

    Sometimes I feel like Cloud does too. Stuff seems obvious to me, but I have a zero basketball I.Q. and have never done anything at the NBA level, so do I really know?


    Now...with Matt Millen and the Fords...yeah, I think it's different there.:toilet:

    Just my two cents.
     
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Kool-Aid avatar. Yup.

    Drinking it? I think everyone does to some extent. That was the reason for the Kool-Aid avi in the first place. I knew we were getting Kool-Aid pushed on us and I was poking fun at the hilarity of it all.
    Don't confuse that with getting drunk off of it though.
    I was posting before the season even got underway that this guy was going to end up looking a lot like past coaches fans liked to dislike in many regards.

    I've also posted for years that there isn't such a thing as the "mister perfect" coach out there. You bring in any other guy and we will have a list of complaints just as long, only filled with different stuff.

    How about that JVG?

    What did we learn from him last night?
    1. His lineup would be the Tayshaun at the 4 smallball lineup.
    2. He really thought that pittance of PT spellcheck got was a waste. A waste in the sense of he should have been getting saddlesores from riding the DNP horse while Rip received those precious 6 minutes.
    So much for him being mister perfect coach.

    Meanwhile yet another coach not named Flip (Mike Brown) gets interviewed at the half and blames his teams woes on not making their open shots. Seems they all say that sooner or later, but for some reason when we hear it we get LIVID.

    It appears that shots going in seems to be the difference between settling for what the defense gives you (us) or finding the weakness in the opponents defense (what Boston and Cleveland did to us).
    Both teams see many of the same looks offensively on both ends of the floor, yet they knock down the open ones, we don't, and all of a sudden something magical has supposedly occurred. Well, yes and no. Our defense miraculously extends and opens up big holes in the middle of the floor, while theirs stays compacted around the painted area and it appears all this team of ours does is settle for nothing but jumpshots by design.

    But let's hold the gun right there for a second. Do we honestly believe Michael Curry's offense isn't intended to get easy baskets at the rim? He made his starting guards Allen Iverson and Rodney Stuckey for heavens sake. He doesn't insert McDyess into the lineup with Rasheed because he gets his jollies off watching the other team "rejoice", as our friend Lee likes to say, when Antonio shoots jumpers from the elbow and the baseline extended. His decision to insert Antonio is at it's core intended to space the floor better and in turn get Rasheed down on the blocks shooting that turnaround of his before the double team comes. It's intended to allow Tayshaun breathing room when he backs his man down, it gives Iverson and Stuckey more opportunities at the basket in which the opposing big is hesitant to leave their check wide open from 15 feet out.

    The problem is, you can't put the cart before the horse. Teams start out games daring you to take shots. They have to be made to pay for it and prompted to close out next time, which extends the defense, which opens up the floor for inside shots, before players can just "take it down low". It sounds simple, but it isn't. If it were, there wouldn't be such a high premium on great coaches and owners would be able to get away with paying them far, far less.

    But hey, that's just my take on it. As was the reason for my grade. Don't forget, I'm grading on what I know, not what I don't know, which would be far too expansive and thus unfair to Michael Curry. Therefore, I'm grading predominantly on wins/losses.

    For me (I repeat, for ME) to give him anything like a D or an F I would have to convince myself that we have performed at pretty much rock bottom thus far in that aspect.
    It appears our record could be worse. Much worse. We couldn't conceivably be 40 and 0, yet we could for sure stink it up enough to be 0 and 40. Thus my grade, and why it rests firmly in the upper half of the spectrum.

    And I'm certainly not going to insinuate that anyone should be slapped for their letter choice, thank you very much. That was just rude.
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It was Mark Jackson that said Afflalo's minutes should be given to Rip.
     
  6. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Mark Said it also.

    I believe JVG said it at the 1 hour 59 minute mark.
     
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not sure who said it first, but they both agreed. Last year they both agreed that the kids needed to play because the starters were worn down from too many minutes of long playoff runs. Yes, having yet another guard who needs minutes makes the situation different, but these guys are paid to say contrary things.
     
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Speaking of weird commentator stuff...

    Did you notice the graphic just before Mark and Jeff started on their play Rip more minutes tirade? The one that showed Rip's minutes down nearly ten per game, but his scoring down only 1.5 points? Give him more minutes, but it's not going to generate more points. Rip is too used to pacing himself to play long minutes.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I wonder if Michael Curry is aware of that. If he is, then I might have to upgrade him to a D.
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's a great stat. That means that little part of the plan is working.
     
  11. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Interesting and enlightening insights, all of them. On your last point, experience is a vital factor in all difficult pursuits. Joe D. had to know, or at the very least should have known, that Curry's lack of head coaching experience (did he ever coach at any level?) and his very minimal experience as an NBA assistant would hamper his performance this year (and, as you suggest, in future years).
     
  12. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    B+?

    Oh come on. :skull:
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You are missing something pretty huge. The coach does control the mix of players he has on the floor. His hands are not completely tied in this matter. Lets take Dyess, for example. Dyess, per Dyess mind you, thought his role for this year would kind of be like Hunter's in season's past, play little until the playoffs. Even after he decided to come back to Detroit, I doubt there was any mandate that Dyess had to come in to start every 2nd and 4th quarter and play the whole quarter. And this recent decision to just start playing Dyess starters mintues - that was no mandate, nothing to do with the hand dealt to him.

    To have Dyess and Sheed out there as a pair for significance minutes completely misses another fundamental - the tasks assigned by the coach must be doable by the players. I am sure that as a coach, you are not going to tell your shortest, tiniest player to go out there and play center, and if he did not out-rebound the opposing center (14 inches taller than your guy), his effort would be questioned, and he might be kicked off the team.

    Covering the paint area against opposing players driving in and getting easy scores is a task that must be done. And it takes a power forward to do this task. Once upon a time, Dyess was a power forward in this league. Once upon a time, Sheed was a power forward in this league. But that was once upon a time. These days, neither has the quickness to get over to plays the other team runs to the paint. No amount of effort, smarts, whatever, is going to make Dyess nor Sheed capable of doing this task that they simply can't do. Each is a fine center, but a lousy power forward.

    Now, playing Tay at power forward for many games? No mandate there. He did not have to start Stuckey, Maybe he had to start AI. Maybe he had to start Rip or had a lot of pressure on him. But put Tay at power forward - a position he simply can't fill, noway anyone mandated that. All we got from that is a lingering groin injury for Tay, and Rip, from playing out of position and trying to contend with players too big for some to be fighting game after game.

    How about all the minutes Tay is playing? Do you really think there is a mandate for Curry to overplay Tay? Heck, while playing small ball, we had Amir doing nothing at all. You trying to tell me Amir could get no minutes from some cards dealt?

    In sum, and I could go on and on yet on this, the coach makes a whole lot of decisions under his complete control, as far as the units he puts on the floor, and on how many minutes a guy gets. Regardless of who starts, the Pistons have pretty much every game this year had the players available for Curry to sub in wisely thruout the game to get a win. He has made wrong choices. Just him. Nobody else. No excuses. He's goofed consistenly, and if he messes up tonight - it will be all him. Hopefully I will be writing up a win tonight and won't have to lambast him too heavily.
     
  14. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    -
    That was harsh on my part. And I shouldn't set a bad example on the forum.
    But are we not men ?
    That's why I think the forum should go to "Marshall Law". Before rioting breaks out.
    No more free will thinking.
    It's gonna be bad and I really don't want to see that.
     
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Surely you don't intend to tell me what my own avatar was for?

    http://www.pistonsforum.com/november-2008/9112-toronto-nov-5th-7-00-pm-2.html#post166133


    I know who one of his mentors was.

    Funny, but I thought I did. You even reference my grade later on. Are you even trying to make sense anymore?
    Because [sarcasm]JVG is a puppet with no history whatsoever of speaking his mind[/sarcasm], you come to the conclusion that he was being disingenuous which just happens to suit your purposes.

    That's what they all say. More what if's, which combined with 1 penny will get you a ride on the Meijer pony.




    I hope easy buckets aren't defined as "Oops to the bigs".
    Certainly you realize how far and few alley oops are per team per game in the NBA.

    I never said I didn't.


    I'm still at a loss as to what type of input this is supposed to be.
    You tell me where .525 should be on a scale of .000 to .646 or so.
    It sure as heck isn't a failing grade.
    I'll do the math for you.
    It's 81%. Factor in that he's cycled through the youth more than Flip and had to deal with a trade that took the teams long standing playmaker away, and I call it a B+.
    What I find silly is how no one was in such a tizzy over 3 B's, but a B+....now that's just outrageous.
    That's,well, just plain silly.

    At this point I would have to return the favor and question what it is you do and don't see.
    But respectfully though. Without allusions to anything crude.
    Our age and gender should have no bearing on whether or not we can avoid hints of violent acts and communicate intelligently with one another.
    I see no restriction on freedom coming from mutual self coercion designed to elicit a mere modicum of civil restraint.

    I guess that will have to be one more thing we disagree on.
     
  16. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    My guess is that the B+ grade is assailed because of the interesting posts that result.
     
  17. Lionsloser07

    Lionsloser07 Second Round Draft Pick

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    I decided to give Curry a C- on his performance with the Pistons due to the lack of good coaching, but still .500 record.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Cloud is good at managing controversy.
     
  19. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Ah.

    Maybe I should change my grade to an A, because I do not know what it's like to be a coach in the NBA.

    I'll just say I'm not a fan of that theory. But I understand it.
     
  20. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I prefer to give myself a D as an armchair GM. When Flip was here, I despaired the lack of experimentation. I wanted different lineups to get these guys out of their rut. I wanted to give the young guys more opportunities so that they'd be ready. I wanted to see if a different combo of guys could give us an edge we never saw before.

    I wanted the young talent to get a shot at being a regular starter and see what they do.

    Curry has done that. Too much some may say. But it's not worked out. So maybe what I wanted to see this team try wasn't right in the first place.
     

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