Grading Joe's Offseason So Far

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I have to give Joe a B.

    He still has some things to address, but this looks like a killer draft, and the signing of Samb, Johnson and Billups gives us both continuity and a future.

    He can't force Lindsey to retire, but a trade clearing some room for the kids would be a plus. Just the same, we're not going to rotate 3 rookies. The Piston way says that they will mostly sit for one season, get their bodies, routines and attitudes right so that they are professionals who can contribute in the near future.

    Everyone seems so concerned with NazMo, but I see some instability in the situation with McDyess. He's starting to provide diminishing returns as his salary escalates, and his expiring contract is a wonderful thing to dangle in a trade. That said, if he was to sign an extension based on loyalty that spread out his salary hit, I would be ok with that.
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    First of all, I never said it was all Webber's fault, but he's here, in part because Ben is not. Had Wallace been re-signed it would not have led to the signing of Half Price with the subsequent benching and interest in bringing in Webber. I'm just saying given the choice of Ben at around 13 Mil or a Webber/Nazr double sided pylon, I'll take my chances with Wallace.

    I don't know how you call keeping our best defensive player around is a recipe for "destroying" our team for years to come. They already had 12 MIL on the table so they should have been willing to compromise. It's not like they were saving themselves and offering 6 MIL.

    It looks a little to me like having 30 MIL tied up in Nazr and having a waste of a roster spot like Webber here puts us in a much worse position.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Low, if you had to pick between Billups and Wallace, who would you keep?
  4. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Based on the amount of hard work and effort I've seen....Wallace. Scoring pgs are all over the league. As a matter of fact, they are in over abundance as teams keep trying to shed their score first pgs in search of Kidd types.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If I had to pick between Ben Wallace at $10M and Webber at $5M, I would go with Ben easily. But at some point the numbers are so different, than I would take the lesser player in the hopes that the difference in salary could be put to good use. Nazr was not a good use of it.

    Low, I think that the root of your discomfort stems from the abandonment of our defensive philosophy, and I feel the same way. Ben personified the defense. However, I still think we could have kept the philosophy without Ben, if the coach would have been so inclined.

    Here is my question, are the Bulls going to go further than us in the playoffs this year? If so, what is different from last year?
  6. J-Train

    J-Train Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I'm a big fan of Delfino. I think that he'll do great in Toronto. I wish we could have kept him. Bottom line is- We couldn't. He asked to be traded. Delfino did everything the organization asked him to. He didn't complain about playing time. He played hard, and he played well. He was a professional. He felt that he needed a better situation in order to further his career. He's heading into a contract year. This is his livelihood. He deserves to go someplace where he can advance his career. He is a professional human being, not some slave/robot. The Pistons are a professional organization. When one of you employees has done his job, to the best of his ability, then it's not right to reward his professionalism with pettiness. Any decent manager understands that. Joe understands that. He was player himself and is a good manager. I'm sure Joe would have preferred that he stay, but decency and basic professional ethics dictate that you accomodate him. Could Joe have recieved more for Delfino? Obviously not, or else he would have.

    Flip has his flaws, but there is no better coach available. I'm sure you would love have Joe rehire your favorite coach, Irvine, but that's not happening.

    I think Afflalo can guard and play the 3. If he can't, due to certain matchups, we can always slide Rip over. I'll take an athletic, 6'5 guy who can flat defend, over a 6'7 guy who is only a mediocre defender. Any sane person would. This is probably a non-issue.

    Will Blalock sucks. Will Blalock isn't even a NBA player. He's a scrub. He'll be joining the "357 All-Stars" in various foriegn leagues next year, along with Pepe Sanchez, Radko Verda, Rodney White, Victor Alexander, and whatever other no-talent scrubs you've cherished over the years.

    Stucky and Crittenton were the two best guys available who could play the point. Joe inexplicably chose Stucky instead of keeping future All-star Blalock or re-signing Pepe Sanchez. Go figure.
  7. J-Train

    J-Train Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I like Webber, but that cat is done.

    Put a fork in him.
  8. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Actually, Delfino questioned his role quite a few times to the Argentinian newspapers. Every time he was asked about it in the US he said that he was misquoted or it was taken out of context. The bottom line is he wanted out of here and Joe sent him on his way. Good riddance.
  9. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    joe gets a B so far. he dropped delfino which was a great move - the guy was inconsistent, never impacted a game, and didn't even bother to learn the english language. his interviews with stoney and wojo were incomprehensible, even late last year.

    joe drafted great. he got amir for cheap. he resigned chauncey for cheap. he hasn't given anyone a terrible contract yet.

    roscoe, i'm with you on dice. i wouldn't mind giving all of his minutes to amir/max and trading him for a good backup small forward.
  10. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Until the last supposed piece of getting the designated starting center signed, traded for, or appointed with the approval of Joe and 90% of this forum,:) I am giving Joe an incomplete. Hopefully this can be accomplished in the next 30-45 days with the starting center spot being named by the end of August.
  11. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    In part, but I also feel Ben earned the right to command a higher salary for his play. It's like DET takes advantage of getting guys on the cheap and then when they hold up their end and perform better than expected, it's like "thanks for the extra, but we'll be damed if we're going to compensate you for it." More often than not, it appears to be that DET would rather be worse long term than be better short term. What good is all the preparation for the "future" if you're going take for granted and throw away opportunities to win now. There's no guarantee for the future so I would rather this team put everything they have into winning while they have the window open. This team could spend the next 50 years prepping for the future and never win anything.

    I would have said that the Bulls would go further than us, but instead of getting a solid vet like they sign......Joe Smith...genius off season. They were definitely on the right path, but after this off season, they have stayed stagnant. They could have given that money to a much better player.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    What other cases besides Ben? Dumars offer was not chump change.

    When you think about it DET did overpay for Ben back in 00 so he got more than he normally would have back then.
  13. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Maybe we could convince Joe D to trade Flip S. and Nazr to Chicago for Skiles and Big Ben.

    Big Ben could become player coach and Skiles could become his assistant

    :hoops:
  14. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't think gets us far talking about Flip, especially since Joe said that Flip is not going anywhere. He's here, and Joe looks to micromanage him somewhat. Maybe that's what he needs to get over the hump.
  15. Stereodave

    Stereodave First Round Draft Pick

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    I thought we were grading Joe SO FAR. At this point I will give him an A.
    Delfino asked to be traded and I think it is important that everyone in the league knows that Joe treats his players like adults, you can't be trapped in Detroit if you are not happy.
    I like the draft a lot and I like the signings a lot, very well done.
    The problems are all things that have not happened, (center, coach, clear dead wood) we all know more has to be done but it is still July. If nothing else happens this grade could go down quite a bit, like to a C.
  16. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I would give Joe D an Incomplete at this point. I know some are saying grade him on his off season moves, well, I don`t think you can do that until you see the results of those off season moves.

    I am not one to look at a team on paper and draw too many conclusions. It`s good to give our opinions, and share our thoughts, however, at the end of the day, will this team as it stands now, improve over last year, or should we start the rebuilding process?


    So, basically, we are grading Joe D on what grade we think he desreves.

    That`s like taking a class, and before any tests, exams or even a quiz, your teacher says......I am goIng to give you a B, because I like you.

    By the time you have taken a few exams, you are done, and your teacher is amazed...
  17. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    I think Webber did fine in the regular season for us, but as the games went on, Webber was given the ball less and less. The more he became comfortable with our system, the less he was effective. Webber needs the ball to pass, as does Chauncey. He's moderately effective when fed constantly; but the team already had a warm-blanket type player in Tayshaun. Instead of worrying about finding a hot-shooting player every night, we tried to give everyone the ball at least once per eight possessions. I wouldn't mind Chris coming back and playing off the bench, but given his ego I wouldn't count on that happening. Chris was the third-most title-hungry player on our team behind Sheed and Antonio.

    I digress. I would give Joe a C+. He's done nothing spectacular, but hasn't done what most women do in malls: doing something for the sake of doing it. Joe's got his hands tied in more ways than one in that he works for an old codger and has two bench pieces undervalued in the trade market because of Flip's brilliant use/non-use of them in the regular season. Because of their playing time, they'll be viewed as garbage. They're a little more than garbage. Flip needs to show them off next season so they can be traded next season.
  18. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Joe gets a C-. I consider a C keeping the team at par, we're slightly worse.

    CB older, Sheed older. Webber older. All 3 will be worse players next year.
    Rip and Tay should perform at the same level. Tay should actually be improving, but I don't see it. He peaked in the finals 3 years ago.

    Stuckey will be an improvement over Flip, 2 or 3 years from now, but not next year.

    Affalo will never be an improvement over Delfino. I'm shocked to listen to the same people gush about his defense, and gloss over his poor shooting that ignored Delfino's defense and constantly criticized his "erratic" shooting.

    Delfino is a 40% shooter. Not good, but not awful. He's a lot better than Murray and Lindsey. Affalo is a terrible shooter, Lindsey like terrible. I can't see how Flip will put him on the floor if he's shooting 37%.

    Same with Stuckey, great handles and mid range game, but he has no outside shot. I'm sure it will develop, but not next year.

    So, in my book, looking to next year, not 2 or 3 years from now, Joe weakened our bench, and did not improve the starters. I would give him a D, but he has improved the team going beyond next season. Depending on how Stuckey develops, he does give Joe the option of trading Billups or Rip.
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Looks like some of the opinions on Joe are a bit out of touch with reality. Everybody wants him to dump Nazr and Murray. But who wants them? Lets get real here, people don't take on other team's scrubs for nothing. There was no one on the market who would be clearly an upgrade over Stuckey, Afflalo, and possibly Mejia. Hill chose to go Phoenix. Mo Pete went to New Orleans. Chauncey signed for the reasonable amount for the player of his stature. Look at Williams, he got more money, granted over the longer period of time, but non-the-less. And Delfino issue. Since when he's become a savior? What has he ever done to show that he could be a solid contributor? Also, he wanted out, he said so before, therefore he's no longer with the team. I think Joe should be graded based on the reality and not under assumptions that we could get KG for a box of peanuts.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I just got off the phone with Kevin McHale, and he says we can have KG for a case of peanuts, two party hats with kazoos and some Lafeyette Coney Island Loose Meat Burgers.

    [​IMG]

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