1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Grading Joe's Offseason So Far

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. adpreston1988

    adpreston1988 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    I'd give Joe Dumars a C for average

    He did resign Chauncy Billups and Amir Johnson, but besides that he hasn't done anything. If the draft picks turn out to be great then I'll bump him up to a B, but if they're a bust then he drops to a D
     
  2. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    I think Joe did everything he could under the circumstances. Maybe there are more deals to be had. Lets wait and see.
     
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    The Pistons could have kept the defensive philosophy, but it's obvious that they have not. Could means very little. Anyone can do anything. It's all about actually doing it.

    Who cares if we go further then the Bulls unless the Pistons win the championship?
     
  4. KP

    KP First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Metro Detroit
    Regarding the coaching...

    I have no doubt that Joe will replace Flip Saunders as soon a he spots an available upgrade. He's not been reluctant (or restrained - by ownership) in the past. Consequently, I don't believe he'll be slow to make a move - that makes us better - in the future.

    At the moment, Joe dosen't believe there is a better coach available. And he's not going to make a change just for change sake. He's already said as much regarding the roster.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,847
    Likes Received:
    3,261
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Because the team than goes further has a shot at the Championship, while the other team is guaranteed to go home. We have to get through the East. We have been shaping our team to get past Shaq for the past couple years, and now it looks like we aren't so set on loading up on bigs. Chicago is potentially a road block for us.
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    I think it is more of a Cleveland issue than it is Chicago until Bulls can prove that they can hang with Pistons in the playoffs.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,847
    Likes Received:
    3,261
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Now that the rigging has been exposed, D Wade will have a hard time making it back to the Finals.

    Refs will be afraid to make superstar calls for a while.
     
  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Dumping Delfino: B

    Why keep a guy who won't work on his game? Especially if he has reached his ceiling. Plus, we need the backup SF minutes to reward the guys that DO work on their games. Getting only two 2nd rounders in return keeps this from being an "A."

    Drafting Stuckey: A

    I think this is just the guy that Joe wanted....a-la the Prince selection. If he delivers as advertised, we've got a legit 3 guard attack. Something we've lacked in a while.

    Drafting Affalo: A

    With Delfino gone, a SG was the logical positional choice. We could quibble over passing on Splitter and maybe Tucker (unless somebody has another name they want to throw out there); but I'll go with Joe's choice for "late" picks. If he matches Delfino's defensive intensity yet can deliver on "O;" we may not have lost much.

    Drafting Meija: A

    Based on who's left on the table. I can't think of somebody else we should have drafted at this spot. This pick is "gravy" so I don't expect much. Let him battle it out with Acker.

    Signed C-Bill: A

    Accomplished #1 priority on a timely basis.

    Sighed Amir: A

    Accomplished #2 priority on a timely basis.

    Possible FA signings and trades: Incomplete.

    That leaves us with no "holes," and one area of concern; Center.

    Overall a solid "A" from me.
     
  9. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Retaining FlipS earns Joe a B in my book.

    Not because I like FlipS so much, but because (a) Joe wants show he can keep the same coach for at least 3 years; and (b) Big Bill said he's tried of paying "ex-coaches." After next season there's one year left on FlipS's contract. Business-wise, that appears to be the day of reckoning.

    I personally don't have faith in Flip. I give him credit for playing our young guys and building a good staff, but I expected him to actually out-coach somebody, and I ain't seen that yet. Plus he can't seem to inspire our guys and wouldn't recognize a "hot hand" if he tripped over one. But I'm partial to former players as head coaches anyway, so what do I know? Bottom line is; like it or not he has one more season to "prove" himself. I just hope that somebody (Laimbeer? Porter?) is preparing themselves for inevitable.

    Our window ain't closed yet.
     
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    All the draft picks and signing Amir really can't be graded until we see how they can play in the NBA. Great job resigning Chauncey, but this only turns into an A if he does not break down in the playoffs.
     
  11. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Don't quite understand how you can say Delfino did not work on his game. His shooting and rebounding both improved this year. He shot 41%, which while average, isn't as bad as people make it sound. Flip shout 40% and Lindsey was in 30s again.

    As for Affalo, if anything he will be a much worse shooter than Delfino. He doesn't have the athleticism, so I question how good his defense will be. And he is 2 inches shorter, so I doubt he can even play the 3 in the NBA.

    So I have to give this grade an E, for dumping a young, solid backup 3, that was improving, for a raw, young backup 2, who will take some time to improve his shot, and develop into a capable backup, and a player who I doubt can even play the 3.
     
  12. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Where is he now? Did I miss his inclusion on the SL roster? Is he working out with Toronto? Or is he "saving" himself for the regular season?

    Delfino's dumping was a SWIFT move by Joe. That should tell you something.
     
  13. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Agreed. But the thread included the words "so far." BTW, I would also give Joe an "A" for bringing Samb over for seasoning. Now if we can just re-sign C-Webb, we are good to go....subject to FlipJr's progression.
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,954
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Afflalo has something that can't be measured. Heart. The stuff that made Ben the first undrafted All-Star.

    And as far as his shooting, I don't think it is possible to be a worse shooter than Delfino. 40% is acceptable for a volume shooter or a passing PG.

    It's atrocious for a swingman.
     
  15. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,482
    Likes Received:
    495
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Delfinos last year stats were not that much better than Michael Currys when he played here and they both played roughly the same amt of mins.
     
  16. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,424
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Delfino hasn't shown anything other than being scared after an injury and taking almost 2 year to recover. He's easily replaceable.
     
  17. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    And you are SURE of this? Keep your stat book handy. Let's compare his shooting % to Delfino's % in Delfino's first (really his second) year.

    First of all, Affalo is listed at 6-5. Delfino was listed at 6-6. Sounds like ONE inch to me. Delfino may have him in the weight department but perhaps that was the problem?

    Delfino played good D the last 1.5 season, I'll give you that. But were the words "Delfino" and "Defensive-stopper" mentioned in the same sentence during SL play? We will see who is not only the better defender, but the better player soon enough.

    Duely noted. "Solid backup;" ok. "Improving;" well.....

    Since we didn't get a player in return for Delfino and have a roster spot open as we speak, we did not "exchange" Delfino for Affalo, as such. If Joe thought Delfino was a part of the solution, he would have kept him and we'd prolly have drafted Splitter. After all, we had Acker and Blalock in the background. But the fact that neither of them have been signed tells me Joe is more than comfortable with Affalo.
     
  18. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    315
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Fransisco
    As stated the heart factor is going to be the deciding factor I think. Size whys the comparison between Delfino and Afflalo is simliar enough by NBA standards. Skill set I would say is equal - defensive minded swing men with a tendency for a bad shooting touch. Experience a push as well. Delfino carved out a early career on a good Argentine team. Afflalo on a good collegiate basketball team. Therefore, the only thing really that separets these two are the intangibles - heart, desire, coachability, leadership, etc. Here is where Afflalo is leaps and bounds above Delfino. First, Affllalo wants to earn his keep, where Delfino asked to be traded. I understand trying to get traded if your floundering on the bench, but Delfino had solid (16 ish mmg) minutes, although in the playoffs there were a little shaky. Finally, Afflalo is on his rookie contract and Delfino will need to be reupped next year. Therefore, I would say Afflalo has more upside and similiar skill, so might as well replace Delfino who would've had to been dealt with next year contracually.
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    Flint
    First, International players are listed with shoes off, flat footed. Delfino is absoluetly 3 inches taller than Afflalo.

    Next, as for who is the better shooter, we can't say yet. Afflalo has not taken his first NBA shot. Delfino never got shots enough on any consistent basis to tell.

    Dumars honors trade requests. Plain and simple. A horrid policy, which results in us giving away talented players for nothing. Delfino was plenty good enough to play as our backup shooting guard, a position he seldom played for us. We chose to use very inferior players such as Murray or Hunter instead. Thats just bad coaching. Not Delfino's fault he was played out of position, and told not to shoot the ball for the most part. Now Dumars has used two draft picks in an attempt to replace Delfino. Plain flat out bad moves by the GM. There is a side of me that does respect Dumars for giving Delfino what he wanted, a trade to Toronto, since as an organization the Pistons have done way wrong by Delfino. However, as a Pistons fan, I absolutely hate this giving away of palyers. Its a business, good heartedness does not always get you anywhere. Indeed, it just creates an atmosphere of quiters.

    Delfino played for us in the summer league, while still recovering from knee surgery. Delfino certainly did not have enough quickness at that point to play very good D.
     
  20. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    Lets not overlook that Afflalo was "the man" on a good team whereas Los was a role playing fifth banana on his good team.
     

Share This Page